Clutch Oil Seal - SORTED ???
Turbo Mini Forums

The f@cking clutch oil seal has gone again.

You may remember that the LUF10005 black seal lasted about half an hour. So last week I changed it using the minispares tool to fit the new one.

The new seal is the red GACO one.

Anyway, several trips round the block to check everything out ready for the MOT and it's gone again. Oil dripping off the split pin.

Everything else seems OK except that the oil pump is making a funny swish swish noise and the oil pressure bounces with the noise. I dont think it has anything to do with the oil leak.

I'm going to change the primary gear this time as well - see ad in wanted section.

Any ideas why this is happening?

I want to get the car through an MOT so I can start the EFI trials.

Edited by Paul S on 24th Sep, 2006.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Are you certain its the seal and not a cracked case?
Is the engine line bored which would offset the crank from the seal? which shouldnt make much difference really
Are your breathers blocked?
Is the oil going between the primary gear bearings and the crank?
Paul

I seriously doubt it!

Paul,

The breathers are clear, in fact no breather is fitted to the clutch case at the moment.

The block has not been line bored, so I expect everything is in line.

I dont think the oil is going along the primary gear. On the verto there are holes that would send the oil to the front of the flywheel, not the back.

The case, well, I cooked it a bit and slammed in on the floor a few times to get the bearings out.

I'm suspecting the case or the primary gear at the moment.

I think the only way to sort this is to pull the engine out and give it a thorough inspection.

Edited by Paul S on 3rd Sep, 2006.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

You haven't got excess endfloat/wear on the primary gear have you ?
Years ago I had an issue with the clutch getting oiled up due to what i thought was the seal, but it still did it after a new one was fitted. Turned out it was a really worn primary gear allowing oil to pass.

Phil.

WWW.TURBO-MINI.COM

I,ve got the minimum end float on the primary gear 0.0035" and it is in reasonable condition.

It is grooved where the seal runs, but aren't they all?

Can anyone confirm if it is possible to remove the transfer case with the engine in the car?

I think I can get all the bolts undone, but can the case move past the end of the crank?

Edited by Paul S on 3rd Sep, 2006.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Right, the plan is to get the transfer case off whilst the engine is in the car.

I'll check the case for cracks etc. It may be the araldited bearing removal holes leaking when it gets hot.

Then fit a new seal with another primary gear.

Can anyone confirm if it is possible to remove the transfer case with the engine in the car?

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

I have never tried to be honest, compared with the struggle of trying it, I'd rather pull the engine personally.

Metro turbo weekend driver,Mini turbo in the making again!

no longer a series, but still 1.3 turbo.

simple job

dont remove the casing!!!!! remove the clutch as normal and washer thing on the end of the crank.

get a bar and pull the primary gear through the casing bringing the seal with it. check it all and re-fit.

takes a couple of hours and is way faster than removing the engine.

think he wants to change the casing as he isnt convinced its right

forgot to add. it cant realy be the casing, but only the primary gear or seal

It could be the casing for two reasons:

1. It had a good hammering get the bearings out.

2. The holes i drilled to remove the idler bearing are sealed with araldite. They may be leaking at high temp.

You just cant see enough with the casing in the car.

It takes a few hours to change the seal. I may as well check the case while I'm at it. I'm now sure I can get it off with the engine in the car.

I now have the pleasure of yet another totally knackering weekend under the mini. When will it end? I'm getting too old for this!

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Surely this comment:

You can definately take it out, its a bit of a squeeze. I haven't got a brake servo though if you have it could make all the difference.

TBH it is probably easier to do it out of the car, trying to scrape old gaskets off inside the engine bay isn't much fun!

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

Dave,

The groove is more of a polished section about half a thou deep.

I would not exepct it to actually cause the seal to fail.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

coulkd be the hole you drilled ( should have left it in the oven longer) but i recon go with the shed and also make sure the oil reiev holes aint blocked in the primary gear as the will make matters worse.

always looking for them bigger bunches of bannanas

Edited by Sprocket on 5th Sep, 2006.

I roll lapped my seal face to remove the wear mark and give it a 2 micro inch cla finish


No probs here

Metro turbo weekend driver,Mini turbo in the making again!

Last time i had a oily clutch it was due to excessive clearance on the primary gear, normal engines need to run about 3thou clearance on the crank, fast roaders 4thou and anything fast with a minimal clutch upto 6thou. Passed this 6thou point the primary gear will pass oil excessively. If you dont have the kit to measure the gap gimme a call and i'll pop over with the measuring equipment.

I've seen the future and tbh its Pie

Guys,

Thanks for the advice. Hopefully I can repay you with some useful data from the EFI trials.

After a day just thinking about it, I'm pretty sure it must be the primary gear.

If it was the case, I would expect it to leak straight away. Both times there has not been a leak until I've driven the car.

I'm hoping to get another primary gear to try from JF, so fingers crsossed.

Andeh, thanks for the offer but I've got a digital vernier and will measure up before I fit anything.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

UPDATE

Stripped it apart this afternoon.

Found the culprit.

The primary gear front bush, nearest the engine, is shot. Measured it with a vernier and it about 1.6285" whereas the other two I have are around 1.625/6", so well worn.

I could kick myself for not measuring it up properly during the build.

That would explain why it was OK until driven. The torque on take up would have pushed the gear sideways and opened up a gap. The clutch plate would then hold it in that postion.

So no need to get the transfer case off. Thats all looks OK anyway.

Luckily I got another primary gear off JF a couple of nights ago, so it should be back together tomorrow.

Edited by Paul S on 8th Sep, 2006.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

I know for a fact that Araldite softens with heat, I would change that casing too mate.
Paul

I seriously doubt it!

You can get a floating bush to go in there,I'm using one.Just put it in no honing etc

Metro turbo weekend driver,Mini turbo in the making again!

I thought you have to measure the clearance with the gear and bushes in place with a feeler gauge?

And the clearance is altered using different thicknesses of bush? Confused???

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi