which wheels, 12 or 13's
Turbo Mini Forums

It has just occured to me that I need to start ordering stuff for my mini so I have everything in good time for the tight timescale restoration which I am devoting 8 weeks solid to after L2B.

I need to order some new wheels and arches, and am torn between 6 by 12's and 7 by 13's the latter would be with avonbar group 5 arches and I don't know about the former.

Also a little about what I will be using the car for, It will be mainly for weekend spirited driving, as I do like my corners and as such it will be lowered by an inch and possibly recieve 1.5 degrees negitve camber all round.

I'm not into all the bling bling rubbish, however do think that minis look understated on 12's where as 10's and 13's look much more noticable.

I'd just like opinions really that can influence my decision, Photos would be welcome so I can see the wheels and arches in situe.

I can't afford to change the brakes yet so please can we not bring the 10 inch debate into this!

Thanks.

Edit: Having just seen mini 1071 comment what the hell, let the 10 inch debate resume! if I have to change the brakes then I will just have to find the cash, If it produces a better car then why not!

Edited by minimole23 on 26th Apr, 2007.

I am going for 6x12's until i can afford a brake conversion to get 10's. 13's look amazing though! I have driven a mini with 13's and it just seemed a bit ruined by them and very heavy to drive. Have heard quite a few stories of bearings going etc and tramlining.

Oh and i have got w&p arches for them but group 5 or group 2's would look great with 6x12's aswel.

looking at prices i'm already half way to a brake conversion just by the price of 10's compared to 13's

10's

10s all the way had all three on my mini and personally i prefer the ride on the smaller wheels. Found the thirteens to give a harsh ride! Think its all down to the tyre profile!

id go 4 tens, but given the choice of 12 or 13 id go 12

Under absolutely no circumstances would I EVER run a Mini on 10" wheels again .... never never never (ok maybe a mk1 or pickup but then they would be show cars and probably never driven on the road)!!!!!! I'd rather drive a pink Sport KA with a beige hood than a Mini on 10" wheels!!!!!

Why, brakes and tyres quite simply!!!!

The reason most people have problems with 13s is that they fail to get the offset right and go for 7" wide wheels (too wide as it stretches the side walls and when you only have a 50 profile to play with you don't want that!!!)

I have proved to people over and over again that a Mini on 13x6s with Bridgstone Potenza tyres, 29 psi front 27 rear, 1.25 - 1.5 deg neg camber and castor set between 4.5 and 6 deg to suit driving style gives the quickest and most consistent lap times on any circuit I've been to.
To get these right you need to get as close to an ET20 offset (assuming flanges for vented discs) as possible ... if you can't get them under normal Grp2's it's going to tram-line, skip, dart about and cause all sorts of fouling issues.
It is these silly wide and / or near 0 offset wheels that kill bearings and swivels. Also a lot of 13" wheels that are sold cheaply are SOOOOOOOO heavy ..... make sure that it doesn't weigh more than the car before parting with your cash.

You have to set your shocks a little softer on 13s than tens but you that actually helps everything feel nicer on the road. You might want to consider keeping the doughnuts fresh or coil overs ... depends on the use of the car as coil overs on road cars were the rear seat get used aren't easy on the rear shock mounts. I digress.

Tyres, well if anybody car show me a tyre for 10" wheels that works on hot dry roads, dusty roads, roads with mud and slush, snow and worst of all standing water I will be taken back as I have never found any .... .ok the old Dunlop tyre was OK but your can't get that anymore.
We live in Britain and in Britain the weather has character ...... :)

On 12", probably the best option for the road as the 165/60/12 tyres have a little more give in them than the 175/50/13 which improves ride, also surfers from tyre choice issues. The Yoko A539 is probably the best all-rounder and Falkens are ok for 'normal' use .. although lacking in ultimate grip compared to the A539. Another advantage for 12s on a daily driver is that the tyres are a load cheaper than 175/50/13s!!!

13" gives you some superb tyres to choose from. The Bridgstone Potenza has always been my fav but as it is no longer available then the Conti contact comes top of my list until Bridgstone replace it (rumoured).
The trick to choosing tyres for 13" rims is to get as rounded a sidewall edge as possible to make it more progressive as the car rolls and ultimately breaks away.
That takes the Perelli out of consideration .... just as well as the quality of them is poor and balancing them can be a pig. I personally don't like P's as I have had several of them delaminate in very few miles from new in the past in all sort of sizes and tread patterns.

My personal opinion on brakes is that your better off having the largest acting radius you can get away with and adjust the braking level via master cylinder size / servo level. I've never been happy with any Minis I have driven on anything less than 8.4" discs, and even then I am really fussy about pads as you need to be able to pull it up on the road as quickly as the modern stuff you'll run into when they do something stupid with no warning if you can't.

For my own car I am looking at going biger than 8.4".

You pays your money and takes your choice. 10s look good in a classic sort of way, 12s are cheap to run but for performance .. 13s every time!

Edited by RogerM on 26th Apr, 2007.

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

Roger, what are your thoughts on 195/45's for 13 inchers?

Cheers, AL.

sorry, dont want to thread hi-jack

Edited by AL on 26th Apr, 2007.

I wouldn't be able to comment as I never driven a car with them on. I would have thought it would be really hard to get a wheel with sufficent width (6.5" - 7") under the arches in such a way as to get the contact patch in the right place.

Maybe for show use? As I say I've no experience of them.

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

Factory fit sports packs

I'm with Roger most of the way. After 5 years of tossing around the TT is does now handle very well on 7x13s (with slicks). The setup would be useless for road use though.

As discussed, the debate hinges around tyres. The bigger sidewal of the 10s gives them a much more 'chuckable' feeling and are much more progressive on the limit. This pleases alot of people and is great for road use (nice and forgiving). But tyre choice is limited. and I personallly don't like the look of 10s

13s are a lot less forgiving on the limit and as Roger says, poorly setup cars feel dreadful.

12s are my favorite for road use chuckable but plenty of grip. I have 6x12 and A539s (a great all round tyre). I'd like to put 12s on the hillclimber but you can't get slicks.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

I have to agree with Roger here. He has put it much better than I could. My road mini has 13x5.5 and they work well, although they are a heavy wheel. Wil's road car on 12s does turn in better I think, but he has better tyres.

I have never really driven on 10" so who knows I could be surprised. In the end I just think it comes down to personal preference and experience. If you have driven a dog of a car with 13" you put all the problems down to the wheels, its and easy explanation.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

I drove my Mini with 5,5x13 Compimotive ML whels for one summer. These were one of the lightest wheels available with lots of offset.


After changing to tens, the car was soo much faster. Both accelerating, braking and turning. However, the 13" have a bigger tyre patch, that might be benefical for out and out racing. But... Look at Miglias. They're faster than your TT guys

After:

with the offset q, as some of you know i ve been doing some work on this in the help needed page ..
it appears the stock mini offset is 34mm positive ,that inwards towards the engine , the wheels i had on were 3mm.. pos offset ,these were fine until a lot of power was applied ,this is on 12*6 revs.
rog has say 20 et and then the what turns out to be 6mm less inset cos of the metty flange ,so 14mm actual pos offset .

seems to be a balance to be struck between wheels well into the arch say 34mm ,
and out near or past zero to negative offset ,
i think as you move down that line you go from neutral no torque steer handling but less width to the car ,so less ultimate grip ,down to the zero offset sort of thing ,with twitchy torque steer but more width and so more ultimate grip that at some point of offset gets to be unusable .
maybe rogers 14mm is the best place !!
i think the sports pack is 25mm pos inset .

Edited by robert on 27th Apr, 2007.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

On 27th of Apr, 2007 at 08:37am Vegard said:
. But... Look at Miglias. They're faster than your TT guys

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

yes i was thinking that wil, is there a race series where they can use whatever wheel they want ,and if so what do they use ?

vegards ,the thing is ,unless you know the nos on offset ,its hard to analyse ,the 12s you had on may be more outward offset(negative) than the 10's ,,it can be deceptive to look at the wheel specially with a split rim .
something else that comes into it ,is camber ,with a lot of neggy ,the contact patch move over to the engine side ,so effectively giving more pos ,but then when you hit a cambered rd and the face of the tyre moves into parallel with the rd ,the offset moves with it and it steers that way ,hence the bumpy rd hedge car hedge field sindrome !!!

Edited by robert on 27th Apr, 2007.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Thanks for the replies, The in depth Information is really useful.

This debate is edging me back towards 12's partly because If I do go for 13's i'll break the car/my spine on the atroshiously poorly surfaced roads round here.

And I went onto an industrial estate this morning and saw a mini parked on ultralite 6 by 12's that looked awesome.

My opinion on this is that the offset is the key to making them drive well, as an example I used to run a Mini Estate on 5 x 10 GB Minilight replicas, mainly standard suspension, it drove well.
I was given a set of 6 x 10 Wellers so decided to try them, well, it was just god awful, handled like a pig on rollerskates.

Is the slower acceleration between 10's and 13's likely to be because it is like adding an additional flywheel with all the extra metal and increased diameter of the wheel?

Yes.

My MB wheels are 7,5kgs with A032R tyres, the Compomotivse (light) were 14kgs. That's 30kg in addition!!!!

There is a slight weight dissadvantage of 13s over 10s, but there are lighter wheels around. Ours are not 14kg. However, the main difference I reckon is the rolling radius. If you change to 13s from 10s there is a difference and to keep the acceleration the same you need to change the FD ratio.

Down the strip in my NA 998 one year I changed from my 13s to some 12s to see if it would help. It made no difference and you would have thought that on a low powered cat it would make more difference. I could not try 10s because of teh brakes.

Basically the performance of any of the sizes can be prooved and disproved for ever. There is not a fair test or easy back to back test. I think it just comes down to what you like the look.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

Which are the best 13"- 6" wheels and where can I get some?
Allan

http://www.rabdunn.co.uk/

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM