Why so little interest in Paul S fuel injection testing?
Turbo Mini Forums

I don't get why there seems to be so little interest in Paul S testing of his MegaSquirt EFI setup. He posted some great results yesterday which show how he got almost identical AFRs for the inner and outer cylinders. And no one even acknowledged it.

With the number of people pushing the limits, that would seems to me like one of the next thing to do to get a few more HPs. I bet he's the only one on the forum who actually knows what the fuel distribution on his engine is.

Comments?

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

I think trying to understand it will be my first boundary! Purely and simply i don't really understand whats going on when you to speak to each other? Its actually a different language sometimes. But full credit to both of you for pushing things forward. I guess with the advance of the twin cam cross flow heads on minis that has also slowed down interest.

I'm reading still though, so definitely keep the results coming!

"Cars are a lifetime of pain"

Well, if other people are anything like me they will have been a bit overwhelmed by the technicallity of it all. I knew alot less about all things engine related before I registered here and I was just daunted by the level of work some poeple were doing. I ended up focusing on other aspects rather than jumping the gun and attempting to understand the siamese code. I obviuosly appreciate everything you lads have done but I don't know enough about the subject to truly appreciate it and discuss it. So I just left it to the experts

EDIT: Stef got there before me

Edited by GaryOS on 23rd Mar, 2009.

On 12th Nov, 2009 Paul S said:

I think Gary OS has taken over my role as the forum smart arse

I for one am very interested in the subject, I just don't post about it because I lack the knowledge and understanding.

I really respect what you guys are doing and look forwards to results when its working as it is intended.

I think the lack of understanding is quite a big part of it,

i have delved into megasqurt, but pauls thread still goes over my head a lot of the time.

Yep I am with Stef and Gary. I am interested but unfortunately it all looks like gobbledygook to me.

I'm obviously interested but feeling a bit guilty as I only have the electronics built so far and haven't finished my injection manifold to test it so I'm limited to playing on an oscilloscope.

I too know the fuel distribution - but only under no load and on a carb - as I have also fitted twin widebands and invested in all the data logging stuff but the engine only runs on the garage floor so far.

Give me another 3-4 months and I'll be there too....:)

I think ministef's point about the way twin cam bike heads are perceived now to be the way forward is very valid though....

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Echo all of the above.

I also think once it can be proved that there IS a gain to be had with injection, there will become more interest, as ultimately this is all for power gains.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fusion-Fabri..._homepage_panel

www.fusionfabs.co.uk



1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

Gary and Stef are at the same place as me, I am really interested in this stuff but it is going straight over my head, I have downloaded most of it into word and made a doc out of it, to read when next on a business trip, but haven’t had that opportunity as yet. Fair play to the lads and it should lead to fantastic things I just don’t have the time at present to understand let alone contribute

It's brilliant what you guys are trying, but as above I got lost in the thread, and to be honest I've stopped reading it.

My personal opininon that is it's not something I can ever see me using at the moment, so couldn't summon up the enthuiasm to educate myself on the subject.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

Another point - for what it's worth - injection doesn't come cheap..... yet

I doubt I've spent anywhere near as much as Paul but there is no "off the shelf" manifold for what we are trying to achieve (ie, ultimately turbo) so I've gone my own way (different to Paul) and bought half the world's supply of aluminium.... plus welding equipment (luckily I already had), loads of other machine toools, non-standard taps/dies, gas, time and effort, etc...

The electronics don't come cheap either once you include all the dual wideband, data logging, laptops, Megasquirt itself..... and I built it all myself from kit to save costs.

R&D is pricey.....

But that certainly doesn't mean your efforts, Jean, are not appreciated. It's just there are going to be a very limited number of people following this until real proof is there because it IS a complex subject (as others have said) - I still find it complex, as you know from some foolish statements I have made, and electronics and computing is my main hobby beyond mechanical engineering.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

another factor is , with matt at 245 bhp odd and then breaking teeth off on 310 ,that gives a window of safe usage ,and if one can get to that window with a carb ,why go to the expense of anything else ?
the technical challenge is right on though .

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

http://www.jbperf.com/

I've not even tried megasquirt, my engine is a very basic setup, and I dont think that will be changing any time soon.

Impressed with what is being done, but simply not 'for me' yet.

-a

Right, I understand where you are coming from.

We have had to understand and overcome some complex issues. A few remain but will be sorted.

However, whilst we have had to understand the intricacies of 5 port EFI, hopefully implementation will be much simpler.

If you can handle megajolt, then EFI is the next step. At the moment, the most difficult job will be fabricating a manifold.

My early trials with dual widebands on a carb showed that the fuel distribution is far from perfect. We can now improve on that.

I understand the Bike head issue. I have three myself and two K headed engines planned.

However, last years Avon was still dominated by 5 porters. The bike headed cars sat in the car park or were left at home.

Hopefully it will be different this year, but don't be dazzled by the glamour of the 16v head. There is still life in the proper mini engine yet.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

http://www.jbperf.com/

Last year was the R & D year for the bike heads...if the RR day is anything to go by Avon will be ALOT more interesting this year!

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fusion-Fabri..._homepage_panel

www.fusionfabs.co.uk



1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

The other thing to consider is that the EFI is a bolt on mod.

No need to remove the engine.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Edited by GaryOS on 23rd Mar, 2009.

On 12th Nov, 2009 Paul S said:

I think Gary OS has taken over my role as the forum smart arse

I must agree with you Paul, I could have been out at the start if this race season with a 16V screamer and probable do quite well but I really want to win the season outright with a 5 port It would be a great day when a 5 port went head to head with 2 top speck KAD 16Vers and won but I will most likely spend most of this year and next trying to achieve it.

5 port rules

16v its the real path to power but some how is not really an A series anymore more a three bearing German engine.

* let huge row ensue*

I can also back up what everyone else has said about it going over our heads. And it is not an easy subject to try and learn and get your head around.The time envolved aswell is well out of my reach. I struggle to get time to work on or drive my car let alone try and teach myself the fundamentals of efi. And Paul I have total respect for what you are doing and have done. In some respects I am jelous of your knowledge and ability. Getting my head round it would be one thing being able to fabricate alot of the parts is another. Keep it up!

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

I'm crap at anything more than the basics, but I'm learning and TM has been a huge help to me.

Be it EFI, 16v, the first few turbo mini's. If somebody hadn't made the intial effort and tried something different then none of the advance would have been made and we would all be poorer for it.

I tried to read the threads on EFI etc, but it went over my head. But good on you to those that do understand and are trying to make it work to it's full potential

Of course all this started out for me to build a turbocharged mini engine that could do 70mpg. That is still on the cards.

But you lot have poisonned my mind and with the Miglia coming along, I've forgotten that and concentrated on maximum power.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."