Charge Cooler - Suck through
Turbo Mini Forums

hello all, there has been a great thread started by Andy500 talking about the Eaton and his findings.

During this post the elusive charge cooling on these setups was mentioned and there was some talk about the way the some of the V8 blowers were cooled, via a block between the blower and the inlet manifold.

This got me thinking about about the SC12 kit that I have got from Ben in AUS. Bens kit doesnt bolt the SC12 the same way as the Eaton which sits ontop of the manifold, but side on. This gives you access to the manifold that supply's the A/F into the head.

This must mean its rife to try some charge cooling?

- The first this I thought about was trying the VMAX style of charge cooling by mounting a box ontop of the manifold and cooling that with water and a small rad, electric pump, etc.

- This lead me to think of a double skinned manifold that you could run cool water around.

- Then after speaking to the maker of the kit about having a small rad in the manifold that the charge is pass through. I was thinking one of those small rads that the PC gamers use to water cool the CPU's so they can over-clock them.

Here is a pic of the kit on my car so you can see the manifold.

Any thoughts?

And here is Andy's thread http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...id=285384&fr=25

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

do you mean something like this??

http://turbominis.com/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=275040

luke

The biggest problem with cooling an already mixed A/F charge is that if you get the temps too low then the mixture will start to seperate. This start to cause all sorts of problems.

So if the charge cooler is nice and efficient it could bring in a whole host of ther problems.

Its abit swings and round abouts with suck through systems IMO.

Im not sure at what sort of temps seperation starts to happen, hopefully someone can shed some light.

This is just my basic understanding of cooling a suck through set-up.

So how do the V8 boys cope? switch the cooling on via a temp sensor?

Luke a similar idea.

Edited by gr4h4m on 19th Sep, 2009.

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

They don`t.

weel from Andy's last post. There are some kits out there

Like from the blower shop.. I suppose its understanding how they work and what effect they are having. It might be possible to switch the water pump on depending on the inlet temps, but I presume this would effect the AFR which you cant change on a carb, whilst you are running.

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

will bringing the temps down effect the AFR and if so weaker of richer?

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

Am I missing something...I can't see why everyone wants to do a suck through setup, when it should be easy enough to make a blow through?

A setup like this looks easy enough (with regards to SC location), you could knock the brackets up in a weekend, no need to make fancy inlet manifolds, It would be easy enough to put an inter cooler on aswell, far less to go wrong, and far less complicated than making up water jackets installing pumps etc...

Edited by matty on 20th Sep, 2009.

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

Matty, that last one looks like it was more effort to make suck-through than it would have been to make blow-through!

On 12th Nov, 2009 Paul S said:

I think Gary OS has taken over my role as the forum smart arse

thats very similar to how I'll be doing my Eaton set up matty, but using that configuration in suck through is just plain madness!

that setup just needs a turbo carb in the standard location, and and intercooler plumbed in, and it could be brilliant.

I don't see why you'd go to the trouble of doing all that for suck through. the inlet tract is so long that fuelling will be a nightmare, and throttle response will be terrible.

Mr. Prawn, the friendly Crustacean- slowly making steps towards forced induction.

I'm going suck s/c through as a starter engine. I plan to build a new engine later on with a bigger blower and run blow through with an i/c. Doesn't exactly look like it will be too difficult to do at all. My aim for that one is 200 bananas.

In boost we trust

yep that would make it blow through,

blow through/ suck through refers to whether the charger is lowing/sucking through the carb.

That pic is a suck-through??? So has the same issue for charge cooling...

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

yea, that setup is suck through still, for some rediculous reason!

Matty was simply refering to charger location, as by mounting the charger at the front of the engine, you're still able to use a turbo carb in the standard location. that way, you can plumb the charger onto the back of the turbo carb, with, or without an IC (obviously you'd do it with an IC, as thats the main advantage of blow through)

that's what I'll be doing with my eaton setup, using standard turbo fuelling stuff.

Mr. Prawn, the friendly Crustacean- slowly making steps towards forced induction.

does anyone have any data on what the issues are with this type of charge cooler. It was mentioned above that too cold is bad, so how cold is too cold,and how it effects the Air fuel Ratio?

Thanks
Graham

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

Just don't forget to engineer some serious dump/recirc valve to let out the air when the throttle is closed.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Paul why would it need to be dumped more when its cooled than not?

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

just checking..Anyone know anything about the charge cooling plates above?

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

I have talked to a company in aus about their intercooler kits for commodores, they sit under an m90 ontop of the inlet in the aussie v6 engine, a small rad core with water being pumped through, i figured i could make it work with my sc12 kit, however its much too large, he even gave me a cad drawing of the measurments

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

Iv`e just had a through about this, what about a cooler before the carb in a suck through setup.

Although it would have no beneficial effect for the most part of course because its not pressurized.

But what about a CO2 spray bar on it? Would be good for strip runs and dyno runs.