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AlexF2003

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AFRacing LTD

Newbury, Berks

9th Feb, 2005 at 09:56:33pm

Anyone want to share their map?

say you had a 10x10 map of load vs rpm...

what rpms and advance are you running?

Alex

AlexF

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Alberta, Canada

9th Feb, 2005 at 10:12:08pm

10cm x 10cm map of Ignition and i think it's in Gremany somewhere. *happy*

Enjoy....

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9th Feb, 2005 at 10:29:04pm

o ho ho ho ho


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 I refuse to pay for anything else


Like fuel 😂😂

AlexF2003

5795 Posts
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AFRacing LTD

Newbury, Berks

9th Feb, 2005 at 10:55:28pm

swine!

alex

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Mike

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Sunny Sussex

10th Feb, 2005 at 09:32:14am

hehe

alex, what ecu u using? my squirt arrives anyday now and is suppossed to be preconfig'd with an ideal map for my setup, but i dont know enough to be able to say if its correct or not. How do you go about creating/planning a map?

AlexF2003

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AFRacing LTD

Newbury, Berks

10th Feb, 2005 at 10:02:50am

I'm building a Mega Jolt lite Jr Kit at the moment...

There is no way with out seeing your engine someone can pre-program an IDEAL map for your car! Even profesionals can only supply a base map as a good start point!

Thats all I was after... a start point. If not I'll just copy my current dissy curve and then go from there. You have to be extreemly carful with mapping thou as you cannot afford to run too much ign at the wrong time or you will melt your engine before you know it!

Alex

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Mike

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Sunny Sussex

10th Feb, 2005 at 10:29:08am

y in retrospect 'ideal' was the wrong word to use. So how can i check that the map recieved is a good map to get it running at least? U say u were going to copy your curve, how do you do that? Is the info on the net? I was using a metro electronic dizzy which seemed to give good results so i presume i need a similar map - even if its just enough to get me to a rolling road.

AlexF2003

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Member #: 80
AFRacing LTD

Newbury, Berks

10th Feb, 2005 at 01:24:10pm

Dissys are a 2d map...

RPM vs Advance

you add into this a 3rd variable, MAP (or load).

so you compair RPM and MAP to work out your advance.


You can start with a dissy curve...

1000 rpm 10 degrees
2000 rpm 15 degrees
3000 rpm 25 degrees
4000 rpm 28 degrees
5000 rpm 28 degrees
6000 rpm 28 degrees

Alex

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wolfie

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Somewhere around Swindon

10th Feb, 2005 at 03:21:03pm

what coil packs are you guys using ??

everywhere i got quoted ?50+ but the lucas Ds200 Dis coil pack is ?19 in Halfrauds and thats the one the aftermarket EMS people send out as there own

Crystal Sound Audio said:
Why wolfie...you should have your name as Fuckfaceshithead !


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AlexF2003

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AFRacing LTD

Newbury, Berks

10th Feb, 2005 at 05:07:46pm

any ford one with three conections...

wasted spark

alex

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Mike

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Sunny Sussex

11th Feb, 2005 at 11:56:48am

y, got a ford edis4 and coilpack coming with the squirt. Need to find some long HT leads now.

wolfie

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Somewhere around Swindon

11th Feb, 2005 at 01:03:03pm

Been to ford today and they said there rubbish always breaking and as suck keep loads in stock

Crystal Sound Audio said:
Why wolfie...you should have your name as Fuckfaceshithead !


"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely
foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."-Douglas Adams

Jimster
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Sunny Bridgend, South Wales

11th Feb, 2005 at 01:55:34pm

I'll mail mine to you when I get home

Team Racing

On 15th May, 2009 TurboDave said:
I think the welsh one has it right!


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of turbo twinkie in a car and first to
run a 1/4 in one!!

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Mike

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Sunny Sussex

11th Feb, 2005 at 01:56:29pm

what keeps breaking?

AlexF2003

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Newbury, Berks

11th Feb, 2005 at 02:29:22pm

edis does...

alex

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Ben H

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Melton Mowbray, Pie Country

11th Feb, 2005 at 03:43:59pm

I am interested to hear that the Edis is crap! I guess ford mechanics only see the ones that break and not the millions that last for ever. I now have about 10 edis units from the scrap yard of various aged cars and so far they have all worked.

I know that the coil packs are probaly the weakest part of the ford edis ignition system, but for the cost from a scrap yard they are not a problem. I went to the local scrap yard t'other week and got 3 coil packs, 5 edis units 3 timing wheels and a steering column from a maestro all for ?30........

As for an ignition map all you can do is take a good guess and take it to the rolling road. On my NA mini with megasquirt&edis I guessed a map and then drove around with my mate adjusting the map until it was about right. I think you can get it 90% correct like this, but I would not try it like that with a turbo.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

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turbodave16v
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SouthPark, Colorado

11th Feb, 2005 at 04:01:25pm

How does MJ knock back the advance - is it as a percentage of the current advance / psi, or as a x degree/psi configuration?
If the latter, surely it's pretty simple to generate a map that will be 90% there with a turbo application? If the former, it'll be straightforward, just a little time consuming, but using a program like excell, you could generate and test the map then just enter the results on your MJ map...

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Ready to feel Ancient ??? This is 26 years old as of 2022 https://youtu.be/YQQokcoOzeY



turbodave16v
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SouthPark, Colorado

11th Feb, 2005 at 04:17:34pm

As regards coil packs, the other common make is from Sagem. These are used on pugs, citroens, Rover and many others. These use a 4pin AMP connector, rather than the 3-pin ford unit.

On 17th Nov, 2014 Tom Fenton said:
Sorry to say My Herpes are no better


Ready to feel Ancient ??? This is 26 years old as of 2022 https://youtu.be/YQQokcoOzeY



Ben H

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Melton Mowbray, Pie Country

11th Feb, 2005 at 06:54:41pm

Not sure I see the point of boost retard on mapped ignition as the map should deal with it. Am I missing something?

e.g. On the map if I have an advance point at say 6000rpm and 20psi then why does it need to have a boost retard, if the boost lowers i.e. while crusing, then the position in the map will change and the ignition will advance.

The ms&edis does have some boost retard, but I am unsure how it works at the moment (I have ignored it, see above) but I will look into it.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

wolfie

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Somewhere around Swindon

11th Feb, 2005 at 07:44:42pm

not sure what breaks mate

i went to ford with the green stuff in my mitts

The guy behind the counter totally put me off!
But then the ignition troubles i had with the quicksilver i dont think i would like to spend much on a pug one either

Crystal Sound Audio said:
Why wolfie...you should have your name as Fuckfaceshithead !


"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely
foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."-Douglas Adams

turbodave16v
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SouthPark, Colorado

11th Feb, 2005 at 07:57:43pm

On 11/02/2005 18:54:41 Ben H said:
e.g. On the map if I have an advance point at say 6000rpm and 20psi then why does it need to have a boost retard,


Well, it doesn't... What it then needs is a 'negative boost' advance (can't think a better way to describe it!*laughing*)for when the boost drops away from 20psi.


You could map a forced induction engine without a map sensor - ie throttle versus RPM and it'll work fine all day long and make the same max power at any steady-state condition as full management if that particular cell is mapped exactly.
It'll be a lot better than a dizzy aswell becuase the advance under boost won't just be dictated by the RPM.

The map sensor part is how you get the dynamic performance of the engine to improve even more-so... now you can have the correct advance figure at 4000rpm, 60% throttle and both 5psi and 20psi boost. More advance at lower boost will accelerate an engine, and spool a turbo even faster.
Many RR operators don't understand this basic theory, and end up giving you what is basically a 2D map - where they mapped the ignition WITH the map sensor, rather than mapping first the engine under lower boost, then bring the map sensor into play to see what advance change needs to be made.

Sure, below 1500rpm, you won't gain anything performance wise, nor after 5000rpm when the engine will spool the turbo no matter what, purely because of the gasflow through the turbine.
You will gain economy and throttle response in these areas - but that's not of a big concern to most...

The difficult thing is finding a RR / dyno guy who takes enough pride in his work to proide you a THREE DIMENSIONAL, rather than 2D (ish) or 2.5D (ish) map, which is what happens most of the time.








On 17th Nov, 2014 Tom Fenton said:
Sorry to say My Herpes are no better


Ready to feel Ancient ??? This is 26 years old as of 2022 https://youtu.be/YQQokcoOzeY



AlexF2003

5795 Posts
Member #: 80
AFRacing LTD

Newbury, Berks

11th Feb, 2005 at 08:17:54pm

On 11/02/2005 15:43:59 Ben H said:
I am interested to hear that the Edis is crap! I guess ford mechanics only see the ones that break and not the millions that last for ever.


They are know by ford to be weak... thats why every dealer stocks them all the time... most of the problems are due to wiring or instalation... the edis module over heats if theres a poor heat-sink contact. It also leaks, which isnt great for electronics!

Alex

AlexF

AlexF2003

5795 Posts
Member #: 80
AFRacing LTD

Newbury, Berks

11th Feb, 2005 at 08:21:35pm

Dave,

You have a 10x10 map of pressure vs rpm

you can pick the rpm points and the pressure points...

So effectivly you can run a 3d mapped boost vs ign curve so I guess you can run sorta boost retard.

alex

AlexF

turbodave16v
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SouthPark, Colorado

11th Feb, 2005 at 11:19:06pm

aahhhh, no throttle pot. I see.

(thinking)


That's an interesting way to do it, but it's still compromised in the 'stamp your foot to the floor, engine accelerates' situation... Not quite 3d, but tons better than a dizzy for sure...

I never realised the MJ worked that way. Learn somet new every day huh! It Really is an excellent system for the ??? provided you have the nouse to do it and know how to tune. I dare say there is a big market for someone who offers to map MJ / MS stuff over in england.............

Edited by turbodave16v on 11th Feb, 2005.

On 17th Nov, 2014 Tom Fenton said:
Sorry to say My Herpes are no better


Ready to feel Ancient ??? This is 26 years old as of 2022 https://youtu.be/YQQokcoOzeY



Nic

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First mini turbo to get in the 12's & site perv

Herefordshire

12th Feb, 2005 at 01:57:28am

there is a guy that brings them over-guy shirvington, but it works out considerably cheaper to get it from the us, around ?80 complete & built up, just need to find sensors

without a tps wouldnt it just be a 2D system?

check out http://picasso.org/mjlj/ for more info
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