ceramic pistons
Turbo Mini Forums

just wondering if its worth shelling out the extra cash on ceramic coated forged pistons?

Very few bother...
Don't know how much more it is, but your money will make more 'smiles/power/reliability' if you buy a hybrid turbo, mapped ignition, lambda sensor, or whatever else...

It only costs about ?150 to have done, but with forged pistons, i dont think you'd need it? - maybe if you were using standard metro jobbies

std metros are hardly weak thou....

Think to yourself what does that ceramic coating do?

alex

AlexF

Helps keep the piston run cooler which is the same reason as to why people such as TD, Jimster etc fit zetec oil jets, Which method of the two is more effective is the question you should be asking maybe?

Yup thats exactly right...

so where does the "rejected" heat go?

Into the rest of the combustion chamber... thats great is your valves and head can handle it, but the A-series head is not an alloy head it doesn't conduct head very well!!!!

Alex

AlexF

Wouldn't that imply that the exhaust gas would have to absorb more of the heat thus more heat going out the exhaust port? If so, this is very good.

yup... that also happens...

but not all the heat will stay in the exh gas sadly!

So if your engine can coat you might see 1-2bhp...

not a good bhp/? ratio thou!!!

Its ok on a full race engine, but on our little a-series... just 1 more psi instead will out do it!

alex

AlexF

Alex

Gav is not necessary saying though he wants bhp? he asking if having ceramic coated forged pistons is worth it. Well they defiantly give you the feel good factor and defiantly do help to keep the pistons cool.

However you could have oil jetsunder crown cooling to help do the same thing. At the end of the day you?re probably better off fitting the oil jetsunder crown cooling if it?s a road engine.

However if it were a full on race engine then I would go for both as ceramic coating has some additional features, which the oil jets won?t provide.

I feel that under crown jets would NOT do the same effect. In this case, the oil would handle the heat as it cools the pistons. In the ceramic example the exhaust would heat up more, which would reduce lag and improve throttle response. It might increase boost as well.

I'm not adding CC on my pistons, but I'm using thermotec for the same effect.

Everyone talkes about only one or two hp gain, but if all these are added up, you've got 10hp more with noe obvious draw backs. That's the difference between a mediocre engine and agood one. If everything is perfect, you could run less boost and have the same effect.
I know some people on this board aren't interested in hp, only to brag about running 20+psi. Those may ignore this.

no obvious draw backs?

Shortened valve life
Seat recession (a problem on std engines anyway!) made worse
Head Gasket reliability reduced

Alex

AlexF

not for the A-series and Ford didn't let me take any data with me when I left :p

250 is not that hard from these engines... how much more do you want/need?!

Alex

AlexF

From what engines???
A zetec or an a-series?

If you mean the latter I'm not sure that you used the correct word?

Maybe you mant to say 'possible' rather than 'easy'?

I didn't think you were involved in advanced stuff like that at ford??? I thought you were a technician in the fuel Labs or something?

Edited by turbodave16v on 18th Mar, 2005.

A-series... What I mean is.. 250bhp on a std ish engine... IE no forged rod... no billet crank... no MEGA turbo! Unlike say cossy tuning!

At Ford I worked for Advanced and Research Powertrain. Mainly diesel stuff, but many projects from soot in oil, fuel in oil dilution, pizeo common rail... lots of dyno testing on things like coating.

The main project I was involved with was themo anaylsis of engnies, things like electric water pumps and temp management!

Now I just teach an NVQ!

Alex

AlexF

So when are you going to build a 200hp A-series? May aswell walk before you can run eh?

Have you been doing some tuning Alex ? i thought you had about 120hp ?

WWW.TURBO-MINI.COM

LMAO!!!

Sorry - meant may as well learn to crawl first....

so because I haven't means I can't?

interesting point :p

Alex

AlexF

im sure anybody can, but you seem to make it sound easier than i bet it is.

If you've got enough time and resources anything is possible!

Better heat rejection from pistons. More thermal energy remains in combustion volume = more expansion of gas = better efficency and more power.

Also gives good protection from detonation so will help those pistons survive a lean out.

I cant see the difference between cast or forged in this thread. Why would a forged item not need it as opposed a cast item ????

On 19/03/2005 10:54:17 iain said:

im sure anybody can, but you seem to make it sound easier than i bet it is.

If you've got enough time and resources anything is possible!

AlexF

alex have you been drinking?

no why have you

AlexF

"I'm not adding CC on my pistons, but I'm using thermotec for the same effect."

I don't meen to join in with the hand bag flailing, but how are you compare CC'n the pistons and thermo wrapping the zorst? (I'm not being arsey, just don't follow!)

I use heat wrap on my manifold too, but I use it with the intention of keeping the heat radiating from the zorst to a min. I don't think it will offer the same gains as CC pistons would. I seem to recall that vizard felt the love when it came to cc'n psitons and valves.

I may be getting the wrong end of the stick, is so i appologise in advance with the excuse that I am ill and have a high temp and aint eaten all day. (must be serious!!!)
anyhow, I have yet to meet anyone who has done this, but I would be interested to hear/read the results!

from a poorly and feeling sorry for myself choppo

Hannibal: There are two ways we can do this: the easy way and the hard way. In a few minutes my friends and I are going to come down on you like your worst nightmare. You're gonna wish the Earth had opened up and swallowed you whole.
bad guy: What's the easy way?
Hannibal: That WAS the easy way.