What is the Direction of rotation on the A series?
Turbo Mini Forums

Im just wondering as Im second guessing myself here, I have my ECU running on anti clockwise but im still not convinced. The engine wouldnt start running clockwise.

engine ? clockways from the rad end

http://www.fishfight.net/

When you view the side of the engine (or front of the engine if its inline) with the crank pulley facing you, the pulley will turn clockwise with the engine running in its normal configuration.

The dizzy turns anti-clockwise.

Richard.

Minivanless, but reluctantly happy living with the decision. There'll be another one day.
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=minimadmotorman#p/u

how the hell have I managed to get the engine running with the ECU told its running the wrong way!

you haven't, you must also have that wrong, and thus right... if you get my meaning.

When I tried first I had the ECU told its clockwise rotation, car didnt start, just backfired and the likes.
Swapped it to anticlockwise just to see and it fired up! maybe I fluked it!

plugs the wrong way round?
the firing order is 1-3-4-2 if the coils fire in that order and there on the correct plug
does the ecu even have to know?
the ecu need to know the position of the crank sensor vs tdc ( ie 90deg btdc)

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett

The answer is clockwise as everyone else says but why does the ECU need to know ???

If an engine runs clockwise, so does its trigger wheel.

If an engine runs anticlockwise, its trigger wheel runs anticlockwise.

Normal configuration (on the common 36:1 wheel) is to have the missing tooth pass the sensor 90 degrees BTDC.

But 90 degrees BTDC is 90 degrees BTDC whichever way the engine runs, it's just that the trigger wheel would be on the other way round on an anticlockwise engine.

Maybe they give you the clockwise/anticlockwise option in case the trigger wheel has been put on backwrds so maybe that is what you have - the trigger wheel the wrong way around, ie 90 degrees ATDC instead of BTDC ???

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

What Rod said makes perfect sence when you set the trigger wheel up Ciaran did to have the missing tooth 9 teeth befour or after the sensor ?

I'm with Rod. I've never had to tell any ECU which way the engine runs. why would this be of any use. the crank sensor is just looking for a missing gap in the trigger wheel. Which way it passes the sensor is not important.

What is important is that the gap is set at the right point.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

got number one to TDC, marked the pulley with some red paint at the 0 degree pointer on the TC, then I counted the teeth from sensor to missing tooth, theres like 50 or 60 degrees between them.

I think the ECU would need to know if the engine runs AC or CW. If its running CW and you say the missing tooth is for arguments sake 9 teeth away, on the mini configuration, the wheel will have to turn 90 degrees to get to the sensor. If it was AC it would take 270 degrees to get to the sensor? so it will take 3 times longer to reach the sensor than if it was rotating CW?

All I know is when I said Clockwise It didnt fire , it just backfired, changed from 280 deg CW to 70 DEG AC ad it fired up.
TBH Im getting quite confused with all the conflicting info. What everybody, incl the example in the manual gives I found to not work and is the opposite to what I used to start the engine??. Unless the Triggerwheel is arseways on the pulley or something I have no Idea, I have stopped driving the car until I sort this as I am not happy that its 100%.

The trigger wheel was welded onto the pulley by canems, I just ordered the Kit because I hate farting around, I just wanted to get the whole lot and fit it. Since the pulley can only go on one way if the TW is on arseways I have no Idea, its is something thats possible though but unlikely.
In any event, I can use the software to compensate for this so its not that much of a deal.

The main issue I cant understand is the conflicting information!

errrrrrm????

With a 36-1 trigger wheel, teeth are 10 degrees apart. It makes no differance which way the engine runs as you put the gap 9 teeth (90 degrees) before TDC. The word "before" dictates where it goes.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

gap is 100% not 9 teeth BTDC at the moment.

Edited by ciaran on 14th Jul, 2011.

Yes it is, ignore the timing mark on the pulley.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

So since the pulley is keyed onto the crank, that means it can only go on in the one position. If I line up the pulley with TDC on number 1, the missing tooth should be 90 degrees away from this? i.e missing tooth is 90 deg apart from the mark on the pulley?correct?

The missing tooth should be 90 degrees away, but specifically, 90 degrees PAST the sensor.

ie, if you rotate the engine clockwise towards TDC, the missing tooth will pass the sensor before TDC is reached and will be 90 degrees (9teeth) past the sensor when you actually reach TDC.

Here is the setup panel in MS



As you see it defaults to the recommended setting of 90 degrees BTDC - there is nothing about engine rotation - you can adjust the 90 degrees for bad fitting of the wheel but 90 degrees BTDC is best for the ECU to work (to have time to do its calculations).



(before anyone comments on "dual wheel" and "second trigger" it's because the msq I used to show the setup panel is for siamese fully seqential, the second wheel/trigger settings won't exist in canems)

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

I will say it once more.

IGNORE THE MARK ON THE PULLEY.

Currently with the engine at TDC, the Missing tooth is 50 degrees Before the sensor when you look in the engine bay.

Is that true TDC or TDC according to the pulley?

If it is true TDC (e.g. measured with a stick thru plug hole) then your pulley is wrong.

Thats with stick through the hole and pushing the engine in gear.

Screw this, gunna have to take the pulley off so, please tell me this is possible without undoing the engine mount, that side is a particular pain in the ass.

There are some pulleys from other derivatives of the engine (especially the inline ones fitted sideways in Meastros) that had the pulley marks in a completely different position.

What Tom is saying is you should have marked your own pulley up properly when you built the engine so you know exactly where TDC really is.

This would be normal practice for just timing the cam in.

If your pulley is even approximately right and you have the missing tooth 50 degrees before the sensor with the engine at TDC, something is very wrong, or Canems works in a wierd and wonderfull way completely different to all other ECUs.........

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Surely the engine would not run being so far out??

The mark on the pulley lines up with TDC, its the TW thats off. In the manual it makes no mention of the missing tooth needing to be 90 degrees before TDC in fact it uses the words "fit where convienient". I reckon the software can be used to tell the ECU where TDC is, by compensating for any mis alignment, altho It would it still mean that in my case the ECU will only have half the time to figure out where in the maps it is>