Donations towards server fund so far this month.

 
£0.00 / £100.00 per month
Page:
Home > General Chat > bk450 gasket on k1200RS

nky_84

User Avatar

218 Posts
Member #: 9213
Senior Member

Scotland

Hi guys,

I had a head gasket failure today, specialist compeoents cometic one. I've just tried to fit the BK450 as someone on here said they work, you just need to drill new holes for the different stud pattern.

When ive gone to fill with water, its pouring out the back of the head / block. Am i missing something obvious, is there actually anyone running this gasket with a twincam and is there any further mods that need to be done to the head / gasket for it to be compatible.

P.S. if there is anyone in the Edinburgh area that has a spare head gasket i can buy off them tonight, i might just be able to get racing again tomorrow....

Thanks,
Nick


matty

User Avatar

8297 Posts
Member #: 408
Turbo Love Palace Fool

Aylesbury

I've dry decked my head, and believe all the others that run the bk450 have also done the same. I'm not to sure if its possible to run a bk450 it hour dry decking, or at least blocking off a few of the water galleries.

Edited by matty on 17th May, 2014.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fusion-Fabri..._homepage_panel

www.fusionfabs.co.uk



1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi


minimole23

4309 Posts
Member #: 1321
Post Whore

Wiltshire

hmm, if you've killed the sc one definately check the afr's and ignition timing. not heard of one fail and they look substancial.

On 7th Oct, 2010 5haneJ said:
yeah I gave it all a good prodding


Sprocket

User Avatar

11046 Posts
Member #: 965
Post Whore

Preston On The Brook

Specialist components don't do a cometic gasket, but I believe MED do.

In the past, I've had to rebuild an engine that had a SC head gasket failure.

As said though, if you are going to use the BK450 gasket, you need to dry deck the head and block or its piss water everywhere

On 26th Oct, 2004 TurboDave16v said:
Is it A-Series only? I think it should be...
So when some joey comes on here about how his 16v turbo vauxhall is great compared to ours, he can be given the 'bird'...


On 26th Oct, 2004 Tom Fenton said:
Yep I agree with TD........


nky_84

User Avatar

218 Posts
Member #: 9213
Senior Member

Scotland

Sorry, yeah. Its not cometic, that was what i had fitted before the head conversion. SC ones are Ferriday Engineering bi-metallic ones.

I havent dry decked the head, so that would explain the water pouring out!! The post i read failed to mention that was a requirement *frown*.


nky_84

User Avatar

218 Posts
Member #: 9213
Senior Member

Scotland

This is the state of the gasket:



Was only cylinder 2 that was blowing, although plenty damage to 1 and 3 also...

I'm wondering in the fire ring went slightly out of alignment when i torqued down the head and that could explain the damage to all 3 cylinders? Or its seen way too much boost somehow?!

I wasnt data logging at the time so couldnt tell you AFR's or boost levelsbut the timing is fine. I'm going to buy the MED gasket and do some runs with the laptop scope / data logging to check everything is as it should be.


gr4h4m

User Avatar

4890 Posts
Member #: 1775
Post Whore

Chester

Holy smoke...

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!


Sprocket

User Avatar

11046 Posts
Member #: 965
Post Whore

Preston On The Brook

When I said I experienced a failure of one of those gaskets, it certainly never looked like that.

At first glance I am thinking of two possible issues. Firstly, poor cylinder head clamping and second, Detonation.

What sort of ignition advance do you have when on boost?

What head studs are you using and what do you torque them too? Do you use the correct torquing sequence?

Edited by Sprocket on 18th May, 2014.

On 26th Oct, 2004 TurboDave16v said:
Is it A-Series only? I think it should be...
So when some joey comes on here about how his 16v turbo vauxhall is great compared to ours, he can be given the 'bird'...


On 26th Oct, 2004 Tom Fenton said:
Yep I agree with TD........


nky_84

User Avatar

218 Posts
Member #: 9213
Senior Member

Scotland

On 18th May, 2014 Sprocket said:
When I said I experienced a failure of one of those gaskets, it certainly never looked like that.

At first glance I am thinking of two possible issues. Firstly, poor cylinder head clamping and second, Detonation.

What sort of ignition advance do you have when on boost?

What head studs are you using and what do you torque them too? Do you use the correct torquing sequence?


Interesting one about the head studs / clamping theory. The head has been off and on about 10+ times in the last few months.You think the studs could have stretched with the repeated tightening and undoing?

Just using the standard head studs, following the SC guide - 30ftlbs in sequence, wait 30mins then 45 ftlbs i think it is. working from the centre out.



I've not played with a main spark advance table at all. Think its 24 degs at full throttle higher up the rev range - not sure if this is altered much by other parameters to calculate final.


TurboDave16V
Forum Mod

10980 Posts
Member #: 17
***16***

SouthPark, Colorado

Did you drive over that repeatedly before taking a picture?
I'm seriously wondering whaaaaat the fuuuuuuuuck....

On 17th Nov, 2014 Tom Fenton said:
Sorry to say My Herpes are no better


Ready to feel Ancient ??? This is 26 years old as of 2022 https://youtu.be/YQQokcoOzeY



matty

User Avatar

8297 Posts
Member #: 408
Turbo Love Palace Fool

Aylesbury

Holy shit, what's happend there!

I never had a problem with my SC gasket. Did you anneal it before installing it, and each time it was fitted?

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fusion-Fabri..._homepage_panel

www.fusionfabs.co.uk



1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi


nky_84

User Avatar

218 Posts
Member #: 9213
Senior Member

Scotland

Never annealed it when new or refitting (it was also 5+ years old i think). First i've heard of the technique but it does sound worthwhile when using a copper gasket!

I've ordered a steel one from MED, which is a bit thicker and should help with my compression ratio too.

Will get it all built back up with the new gasket and let it get up to temp, then remove the cams (AGAIN) for a final torgue down and hopefully that should be the end of it.

Got a test day on Sunday, where i'll start off on actuator boost and do some logging. If everything looks ok, i'll start to bring the boost back up. Was only meant to be 0.8bar max, but im wondering if the 1mm reducer i added to the boost line to the N75 is restricting too much and its spiking.... It was spining the 7.5" soft compound slicks in 3rd which i thought was a bit mental!


theoneeyedlizard

User Avatar

7265 Posts
Member #: 1268
The Boom Boom speaker Police!

Essex

Wow. I've had a few head gaskets go, but that is on a whole new level.

In the 13's at last!.. Just


nky_84

User Avatar

218 Posts
Member #: 9213
Senior Member

Scotland

Ive had a further 2 head gaskets go on the car *frown*. Its getting to be quite an expensive consumable.....

After head gasket 2 went, i was convinced the radiator wasnt up to the job, so bought a new uprated item and although it has improved stationary cooling hugely, the car still gets hot very quickly and its not the solution to my problems.

Few issues that might be causing this:

*running lean - dont think so, as it was setup on RR and i havent touched the map. Havent had a chance to validate with my own lamda as i dont have a gauge and the logging isnt working

*air in the head - possible, its probably the highest point in the system, but i would of thought the pump and general use would push this through....

*water volume - the holes that flow from block to head are tiny, and the gasket half covers some of these too... I think there is not enough circulation of cool / warm water, the head is getting very hot and the small volume cant cool the head quick enough and its boiling. The water temp sensors have never seen higher than 10degrees, so it sounds like hot spots and uneven temps through the head / cooling system.

The only thing i have left to try us dry decking, which will hopefully help with all of the above. I've read a few posts on this topic for these conversions but ive tried to summarise the steps below. Can someone confirm if im missing anything?

*Assume the head has to be stripped back to bare casting?
*Heat up head and fill all waterways
*face flat
*weld in / outlet pipes - what the best location/ solution for this?
* plug block - whats the best solution for this?
*face flat block
*reroute some plumbing pipes
build it all back up and done?!


Any help would be very much appreciated!

Thanks,
Nick


Carl S
Forum Mod

User Avatar

1927 Posts
Member #: 1761
Stalker

Bristol

On 23rd Jun, 2014 nky_84 said:

*running lean - dont think so, as it was setup on RR and i havent touched the map. Havent had a chance to validate with my own lamda as i dont have a gauge and the logging isnt working


Alarm bells ringing here! Get a wideband AFR gauge on it ASAP and confirm what mixture the engine is burning at any given point.

The picture of your gasket above makes it look like the head has been getting hotter than the sun... This could be a number of things, including the AFRs being way off, but I would suggest that you get it dry decked to help with any potential coolant/cooling issues, as you have mentioned.


evolotion

User Avatar

2909 Posts
Member #: 83
Post Whore

Glasgow, Scotland

is the head still straight? and I mean front to back as well as side to side?

turbo 16v k-series 11.9@118.9 :)

Denis O'Brien.


nky_84

User Avatar

218 Posts
Member #: 9213
Senior Member

Scotland

I'm pretty confident it isnt AFR issues, but these things are never 100%..... Its fine at actuator boost, and the fueling is just impacted by a pressure multiplier as far as i understand it. Its going back to the RR for checking once its all built back up anyway.

Dont know if the head / block are straight, wont know until its all in bits and checked prior to the dry deck work.

Does my dry deck checklist make sense? Any words of wisdom to add?


slater

User Avatar

1030 Posts
Member #: 1291
Post Whore

Suffolk / Birmingham

Your list looks about right. There's some photos on my build thread showing what you need to do and where everything goes. I'm assuming as its a k1200 so will have external oil feed already.


nky_84

User Avatar

218 Posts
Member #: 9213
Senior Member

Scotland

On 23rd Jun, 2014 slater said:
Your list looks about right. There's some photos on my build thread showing what you need to do and where everything goes. I'm assuming as its a k1200 so will have external oil feed already.


I've seen your thread, the build looks amazing! I see you have welded an adapter where i think there is a core plug currently? Is this the flow or the return. If its the flow, where does the return go?


nky_84

User Avatar

218 Posts
Member #: 9213
Senior Member

Scotland

Also, ive read on here that there seems to be a bit of debate about whether to run a thermostat or not. I dont, and didnt run one for the last 2-3 years with complete reliability. NOt sure if this could be a contributing factor in the turbo saga or not...


apbellamy

User Avatar

16540 Posts
Member #: 4241
King Gaycharger, butt plug dealer, Sheldon Cooper and a BAC but generally a niceish fella if you dont mind a northerner

Rotherham, South Yorkshire

Does your rolling road use a massive big fan at the front of the car which is keeping the engine temps right down, so your tune doesn't represent the real world environment it's used in?

On 11th Feb, 2015 robert said:
i tried putting soap on it , and heating it to brown , then slathered my new lube on it

*hehe!*


Carlzilla

User Avatar

3673 Posts
Member #: 9300
Post Whore

Quarry Bonk

Ignition timing?

On 26th Jan, 2012 Tom Fenton said:
ring problems are down to wear or abuse but although annoying it isn't a show stopper

On 5th Aug, 2014 madmk1 said:
Shit the bed! I had snapped the end of my shaft off!!

17.213 @ 71mph, 64bhp n/a (Old Engine)


matty

User Avatar

8297 Posts
Member #: 408
Turbo Love Palace Fool

Aylesbury

I ran mine with a copper gasket for 2 years without any overheating problems, and i only had small 4/5mm drillings in the block to head. What temperature did the engine run at?

Any pictures of plugs, pistons etc?



https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fusion-Fabri..._homepage_panel

www.fusionfabs.co.uk



1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi


slater

User Avatar

1030 Posts
Member #: 1291
Post Whore

Suffolk / Birmingham

The water comes out the welded in adaptor on the end of the head and in the front core plug hole on the end of the block just below. You need to make/buy an adaptor to go on the block end and a 32mm 180 degree hose bend to connect them up. It's pretty simple stuff.


philc

1394 Posts
Member #: 1346
Post Whore

bromsgrove

I would go with the dry deck, just means a bit of extra work but could solve a lot of problems. I don't know much about the AFR yet.

Home > General Chat > bk450 gasket on k1200RS
Users viewing this thread: none. (+ 1 Guests)   Next ->
To post messages you must be logged in!
Username: Password:
Page: