Hang on lads, I've got an idea. (running methanol)
Turbo Mini Forums

It appears that Methanol is really cheap, you can get 820L of it on ebay for £320, which works out just short of 40p/L, so that says that it's even cheaper from a ind chem supplier. I've been getting more and more pissed off with how thirsty my mini is and then chucking in that octane booster shite. I was bored and remembered something from Clive Trickey's "more mini tuning". Running a mini on Methanol, the snag was that it required a fucking high compression ratio to get the most power out of it, the high latent heat of vapourisation caused carb icing and it dissolved the castrol R causing bore wear.

I was sat in bed one morning debating which ex-girlfriend should fill my mind for my morning wank and then was unable to do it because I had struck mental automotive gold. It seems to solve the problem of expensive fuel, high compression ratios, boost heating and all the other crap which dogs a turbo engine.

Here is the problem, in order to get the right AFM, you need to re-jig your shit to run 8:1 Air Fuel, this is different from your ideal 12.5:1 and the jets need doodling with in order to achieve this, so, thankfully if you have your carb jetted for your engine, a few calculations and careful turning on a micro lathe should see you straight back in business. Another beauty is that it confuses modern cars so it's unlikely to catch on/jack the price up. The exhaust is peculiar and interferes with the oxygen content=confused lambda sensors. So, the stuff is massively knock resistant, burns cool = no radiator problems, for christ sake, they even took the fan off because it was unnecessary. I think the engine ran at about 74 deg C. One of the snags is that you need to get heat into the mixture to avoid problems, what better way than a big pump. I also suppose it does away with the freeze/thaw damage on the turbo as the waste is cooler also. Perhaps it would require jigging to get the turbo spinning up right but as you could run a higher ECR, a big exhaust valve (fucking hell, I'm good- doesn't need to be sodium filled) would get a big fat pulse out nice and sharp.

I'm pretty stoked as I have a really nice race head which I should be able to run as is, with no decompression plate, no problems with shagging up the combustion chamber with a big dished piston.....

It appears everyone is a winner. I'm going for 205L of methanol for £90 first and see if I can get it to work. Detonation isn't a problem and melted pistons are impossible, I think. The high CR's mean that you can give your bearings a hard time though. Modern oil required as well as castor or mixed distillates tend to dissolve/burn which isn't good.

Well chaps, in good old Stuey tradition, I'm one of the first ones to talk about it and then the last to do it. I'm going to be on the case pronto with this, if anyone else gets there first, I'd be interested in hearing how you got on.

Stu

PS:- I think there is something to do with fuel lines which is a snag. It's do-able though. AND, there is also a problem with the engine getting methanol in the oil and that buggering the bearings up. Probably an excuse to use an evacu-sump which is easy to rig as well.

Tell me what you think.

Bugger off, I'm getting there.

only trouble is, doesnt it eat ally carb's for breakfast? and fuel lines? and some fuel pumps, and probably your fuel regulator? sure someone will correct me if im wrong :)

turbo 16v k-series 11.9@118.9 :)

Denis O'Brien.

and methanol makes you go mental as well. Its really bad for you. I know an old drag racer who use to use it all the time and is really in a bad way now. Make sure you use 'proper safety gear when you are handling it. I do when i have to refil my methanol tank

Caution !!!! Slippery when boosting

It must be possible to coat them with some stuff which isn't reactive or add an inhibitor. As a chemist, I will get on the case with a solution, pronto !

Bugger off, I'm getting there.

Ok, interesting about the health aspect, it's metabolised to formaldehyde which fucks you up, makes you go blind, etc. That's present in the exhaust. Trickey's book talks about fumes. I suppose it's do-able one way or another. Unleaded has some nasty shit in it as well.

Bugger off, I'm getting there.

I think you and Peter need to meet up at a boozer down your way and hash this out between you LOL!

Stainless fuel lines are easy to run - but I'm VERY wary of the health implications. Nothing is worth that - so be careful matey!

shite! formaldahyde! I never heard that before.

what about ethanol rather than methanol?

the thoght occurs cause of the big 3pint bottle of homemade beer i've just emptied.

Hedgemonkey your back great to hear from you.

its as cheap as chips like you say but... T dave has a valid point on the health issues.

give these the top concern and go for it

Methanol burns without a flame, so you don't know when its alite till its too late. Thats the reason you see some of the indy racers in the pits when refueling, suddenly put their hands up and then the extiguishers are all go on the driver and car.


All in all sounds like real nasty shit and not for your daily drive

http://www.jbperf.com/

I understand what you mean.

My point is that people have to be careful about using the values reported by a WBO2 controller when estimating their AFRs when using alcohol. You may be richer or leaner than you think even if you're converting reported AFR numbers to lambda.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

A beer sounds good. I'll get the blower bolted up again, blowing through something with a straight run, try like buggery to measure my jets right and then have a play. How fussy is it to get running right?

Not sure about the ethanol, I've put a few questions to suppliers out and it's more expensive than it is on ebay. I want to know where they get theirs and then see how much meth/eth mixes are. Running a mix with petrol should respond linearly required CR wise, so I suppose you just get the timing spot on and then increase the petrol content until it starts detonating and then throw a teaspoon of methanol in the tank!

Stu.

The mini isn't really worth talking about at the moment, it's just typical.

Bugger off, I'm getting there.

Isn't it true that Methanol is a cumulative poison.
It can enter your body through your skin or through Inhilation.
Nasty stuff which should command the utmost respect from a safety aspect when used.

I'll investigate mixing my own fuels as I reckon it's cheaper. I have a good old tuning book from the 60's with a big section on how to blend racing fuels. I like the idea of keeping a high CR and adding alcohol. The economy thing is a snag as the car does do long journeys on the weekends. I'll have a think about it and when I'm bored, come up with some ideas. I like the idea of running alcohol and just out of curiousity, iso-propyl alcohol should be pretty cheap as everyone uses buckets of it, I think it's a constituent of cider, the thing which makes you have a fight with yourself and forget how to walk! I think denatured ethanol might be a bit pricy. My chief concern is how the effective octane number responds to mixtures. I have some sort of hunch it won't be linear, not sure why but I'd look at it before turning the ignition key. Stu

Bugger off, I'm getting there.

WHOOSH! All this is over my head, but interesting reading nonetheless, keep up the debating guys!

not really wanting to donate to anothr of your'e fantasy ideas stu , but i tried it once on my car when i needed to go quicker and didn't want to use Nitrous, i had a secondary fuel cell and pump which fed thraight into the top of the float bowl to try stop it running dry,
i also bored out the float needle to a 300,
used 300 mains and the richest emulsions i could,
but still couldn't get enough of the stuff into the cylinders,
and it stains everythiong it touched that isn't brass or stainless,


carl

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

Carl, if you want to see one of my fantasy ideas in action, come to the St John annual garden tractor race. It would probably waste your mini as well!!! (350hp/tonne! W/O nitrous) hehe.

Bugger off, I'm getting there.

You have got to show us a picture of that!

i don't want to see a picture of you tossing yourself off thanks,
carl.

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

http://s60.photobucket.com/albums/h22/mrja...=dragtermk1.jpg

That's it in it's earliest form, with an alloy 1L engine, narrowed suzuki axle, 5 speed CR box. Now it has a narrowed metro turbo front end, some 12" front wheels. Blew the first engine up running nitromethane/iso-octane/TEL DBE, seized and threw a rod. Next engine lined up is a 2L Vaux out of a kevalier. Same rig. Will have a roll bar this year. 220KG without driver. It's good fun and bloody fast. Can't link to the photos live.

Moral of the story, if you're running nitro methane, you must dilute it with alcohol. Now picric acid dissolves in alcohol.

Bugger off, I'm getting there.

Ha ha ha excellent, I saw something similar to one of those on a trailer on the motorway the other day!

350 bhp/ tonne , that'll be more fantasy,
STU,i'm not interested in your over educated chemical qualification bollocks,
Any dim wanker[as you admit to being] can bung a shit load of nitro methane into an engine and blow it , thats the easy bit , making it last any lenght of time is what really clever folk do,

so off you go back to your shed and try again,
carl [ bloke who gets thing done].

Edited by fastcarl on 2nd Jun, 2006.

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

Come on Carl, fookin howay man.... Have a fag.

No, I didn't mix that fuel, my mate did, I'd have run a mix of alcohol and nitromethane, with a careful calculation of how hot it was likely to get. Adding an explosive to a hot fuel is a bad idea.

Trust me, I really know my shit when it comes to getting the most out out of non-straight alcohol fuels. I'm also well practiced in doing so, I've run hundreds of blends of everything from avgas to white spirit, dissolved mothballs to aniline mauve in fuel. Not really mucked about with alcohol though, apart from in blends. Fuels interest me as I reckon that's where the proper edge is.

Fuels make a car have the edge and any monkey can squirt in nitrous or run 35PSI with a low enough CR, maintaining the balance is where I come in and if we were to have 2 identical metro engines, 2 same weight cars and were allowed to build it with a budget of nothing, mine would spank yours purely on fuels even though I am a fat bastard and weigh more, I would still win. I would put my money where my mouth was with a 998 metro and would eat my own pubes (all of them) if I lost

Edited by Hedgemonkey on 7th Jun, 2006.

Bugger off, I'm getting there.