It's Dead - Autopsy 080308
Turbo Mini Forums

also the frustration at it going wrong and hard to solve, is a good launch fuel for a big step to the original desired outcome.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Edited by Rob H on 6th Mar, 2008.

ah - a little smiley would have worked then LOL

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

yeah, you need an ishikowa diagram or whatever the fook they are, fish bone diagram!

Or just rip the bugger out and tear it down...

Bugger, got me at it now:

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

yeah i always suggest that but even with an obvious cause we have to go through that shite!

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

yeah but why train us to be engineer's then not trust our judgement?

oh well, pays the bills!

Yeah most engines for service exchange are circa £1M.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

You'll never train monkeys to do our Jobs, thats why they all work at KwikFit

Got the engine out and stripped.

Found a use for children at long last. Big Thanks to Sturgeo and Mylo for helping today.



Nothing wrong with the bottom end except the pistons skirts indicate a partial seizure:



You can see small bits of stainless steel swarf from when I machined the manifold.

Second ring is seized in the groove as well.

The bores are similarly damaged below the BDC line.

Note to self: Make sure that you get all the swarf out next time!

The timing chain tensioner was also broken, but the timing marks still lined up.

EDIT: just found some more swarf in the top ring groove.

Edited by Paul S on 8th Mar, 2008.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Very strange and still no closer to working out the reason behind the lack of compression. Do all the pistons look like that or just that one? Still on the plus side at least there are no bit's of crank floating around in the box. I think with the next engine it may be worth having a carb and dizzy on hand just so you can revert back to them if you get a problem.

[humour]I still can't believe that the fish diagram didn't lead us straight to the cause of the lack of compression[/humour]

I believe the lack of compression was due to the swarf jamming the rings in the grooves. The top one sprang out when I removed the piston but I found a lot of swarf in the groove.

The pistons were all in a similar condition, but this one is the worst.

I spent at least 5 minutes with the air gun trying to get the swarf out the manifold - obviously need to get a pressure washer on it before I use it again.

Who need fish when you have common sense?

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Had a look at the pistons/rods again:



Notice the total lack of oil in three of them. The little ends in first and last ones are nearly siezed. Also a rust like coating to everything.

I know I spent three weekends trying to get it to start and a lot of fuel must have gone down the bores, but i did not expect it to be this bad.

Anyone seen this sort of thing before?

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Only in an engine that had been stood 15 years !!!
Second one in from the left (and possibly fourth) is the wrong way round, hopefully just stood wrong for the photo, and not how they came out....

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

No, they are not in any particular order!

New pistons are on their way from Aus so Sturgeo can rebuild it.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Is it just the tops of the rods, or anything else inside that has the rust (or rust like coating) ???

Despite this, they still don't look like "zero" compression pistons to me.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

id say , the end cyls have run very hot ,and burnt the oil off the rods and seized the little ends ?

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Yes I think that. Rods are dry to an inch or two down.

A bit late now but I was talking to Roger in the pub the other night, and I mentioned that the EFI trials had stalled a bit and he suggested that the lack of compression might have been due to bore washing caused by running too rich. Looking at the AFRs from the data logging I'm not sure but I thought I'd pass it on in case it helps.

I think he is right.

Remember that it all went tits up after I floored the throttle and switched it off.

I'm sure that this caused a partial seizure and from then on it would not turn over quick enough to start. Plus the starter was taking all the volts.

The only evidence of a problem is the scored bores, partially seized little ends and stainless steel swarf from the machining.

Learnt a couple of useful lessons.

Anyway testing will resume soon as long as I feel well enough at the weekend.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

What a plonker am I. :$



This is the swarf that I've just cleaned out the manifold.

I drove it for a half mile before the engine seized, so there must have been more than this to start with.

Edited by Paul S on 31st May, 2008.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."