Thoughts on proposed Electric water pump installation.
Turbo Mini Forums

I may be totally off the track with this but why not take water from the bottom rad hose (cold water) and push it with the booster pump into the core plug. That should cool the engine and the head since this should get out normally either through the heater takeoff or the thermostat housing.

By the way, the booster pump could easily be controlled by a Megasquirt output.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

Sorry dave, can't make picies, there is a bimi blower at this place now :)

jean, do you mean a core plug on the other end of the block (near the engine steady) there by introducing a cross flow of water?? Now thats an idea!! i might have to scrap my water pump plate

i tried using a mercedes sprinter pump with 19mm outlets, it was fine to keep the car cool under idle and normal load, but when i gave it some beans the temp just crept up until it spat the water out

mmm, i like the core plug idea, can leave the heater circuit as is then.

Thinking about this.

The correct term for the type of cooling system in the Mini is a Thermo Syphon. That means hot will flow to cold by itself.

So with this in mind, would this work?

Run one of those small electric heater pumps from a Jag. Plum it taking water from the bottom hose and into the block where the original mech pump used to be. Then, with another hose plum it taking water from the bottom hose into the block where the original mech pump used to be, sort of bypassing the pump if you like and on a 50/50 basis sharing with the pump. Drill and plug the block as I discussed previously. This way the pump provides circulation round the block and the other hose alows the the thermo syphon to do its job, this design might also provide a venturi effect drawing the water through the other hose.

Still think that the flow needs to follow the original rout but like i said, it needs directing better with plugging the deck passages in the right places.

Just some quick thinking

Had a bit of a read & think about this last night,

A std style water pump is supposedly able to generate in the region of 20-30 psi, according to A. Graham Bell the cylinder head needs this kind of water pressure to prevent steam pockets around the exhaust valves/chambers meaning there needs to be some kind of restiction on the wateroutlet of the head to keep the pressure up,

this suggests to me that we should'nt be taking water out of the heater take off,

also blocks are alleged to need little cooling in comparison to the head, in fact on some race engines the block flow is bypassed upto around 75% Also remember that dave is running oiljets so his one "should" need even less.

Basicly I came to the conclusion that decreasing the block to head holes except the two at the flywheel end and then pumping in water at the heater take off would be a good idea.

the larger holes will make the water go to the far end of the block and then return via the head, cooler water will go into the heater take off and mix with the water from the block.

I know your thorough But are you sure its the block? did you change any thing else at the same time?

If it is the block, could it be a crack letting gas into the coolant?

A mini isnt a thermo Syphon is it?

I thought only pump-less systems where thermo syphon.

Alex

AlexF

the pump is not a pump but an ajitator (sorry i cant spell for $£"%) so is a sort of thermo syphon system. Dave intends to keep the standard pump if possible so pumping water into the head via the heater tap is a bad idea as normaly the water comes out of here and this would reverse the flow.

i was down the pub the other night and a person was having the same problem with a 998 mini with a modified head. he had the problem before the engine rebuild and it was standard. he is now going to fit an oil cooler and possibly an ally rad.

My conclusion would be to either change the mechanical water pump for a new performance one, or fit an electric pump in the bottom hose. since the pump is an ajitator the electric pump should be able to flow around the old pump and this would keep the original flow through the engine. the only problem is if the electric pump fails the mechanical pump will have trouble trying to pump.


this is just my opinion and i take no responsability for any failures due to my poor advice. should you have any complaint please tell someone who gives a $£%&.

Russell

few really obvious thoughts that im sure have been thought of ...
did the new block stick a load of dust into the rad and block some tubes ,,do both fans give a good blow in the same direction .,is the rad body sealed to the inner wing so all the engine bay air has to go through the rad to get out,are there any new holes in the engine bay that would let air out of them instead pressure feeding the rad .
regards robert.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Suffice to say guys, that everything that could be done has been done, that the radiator / fans are positioned in optimal locations, and that the block was prepared the the same standards I prepare all my engines, and radiator has been flushed through several times.

I know it's hard to comprehend that this can 'just' be a bad block, but I KNOW turboPhil couldn't keep his last block cool no matter what - then swapping (only) the block, he no longer had any cooling issues... Basically, the opposite way round to me.

I'm especially liking Russ's disclaimer BTW!!!

fit extra capacity rad as well Dave

if you fitted a large radiator the size of a shed, say

would it over heat then ?

if you cant cool it with that in place

the block needs to be changed

as you know you cant get enough internal heat transfer, through flow or conductivity issues

yeah - trying to find a motorbike rad/fan combination as we speak!

Will mean a hole in the other inner wing, but fuggit!

a thin front mounted ??

snaked in there with beeni fan?

your like me dave you dont want to cut away an excellent mini

its sort of not original shell so to speak

could you try a diff rad just to eliminate that poss of stuff being in there so rock solid that flushing wont remove it dave.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

this is silly but have you tried diferent water pumps ( pressed steel and cast impellers )

since the standard pump is not realy a pump it would not take much to disturb flow. i think i would try fitting the electric pump in the bottom hose (since you dont have the heater return here) and assist the original pump. the down side would be if the lece pump fails the normal one wont be able to pump around it.

i think if you fit the lece pump anywere else as a booster you will affect standard flow potentialy leaving hot spots

alternativly you could park the car up and use something else. this will solve your problem as ive never had a car overheat when the engines not running!

Sorry IF it has been mentioned before (not read all off thread).

There are pumps and pumps. The one i very successfuly use is from a renault Savanna turbo diesel. you find the pump mounted on the bulhead.

It is important that the pump moves sufficient water to cool efficiently.

With the aid of my kids paddling pool i measured the flow, Time/volume. It worked out to be 28 litres a minute.

You must remember this pump was fitted along with a front mounted rad and have not tried it with a side mount.



A couple of visits to peter Baldwins ago i arrived early to find Peter taking the engine out of his Miglia, i noticed that ran 2 pumps, side by side. It needed two to created the cooling efficiency.

Alot of pumps only push circa 16 litres a minute.

JF.

Edited by giallofly on 28th Jul, 2006.

I've got to electric water pumps, one of the corley conversions place, and one from ebay, neither flow anything like yours jon.

Team Racing

I am known for my massive squirting capacity.

JF.

Edited by giallofly on 28th Jul, 2006.