BMW K100 8 valve flow figures
Turbo Mini Forums

To go back to the comparison with the KAD head ,
my first generation [ early '90s ] had shed loads of mid range torque AND buckets of top end power

For those of you into figures :
1380cc ,big valve head , L14 cams , 176bhp , 126ft/lb

Real life :
Left a mega developed , ally blocked , 1398cc BD? gasping and covered in dust in the british hillclimb championship .

I've got the flow figures / graph on an original 1990 KAD brochure [ black and white print and photos in those days , how things have changed ! ]

I'll scan it when I get it back from the guy who is putting the figures onto one of those power prediction jobbies ,[ going to see what the heads potential is with different turbo options ]
I'll post it on head flow topic .

Peter Herbert is a gentlman racer though Carl.lol

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"""LazyGoodForNothingSmartArseKnowItAllBackYardMiniMechanic"""

CCC Magazine June 91. KAD 16v flow figures. I have a hi res scan of the full article, and a low res scan is posted on EFi Minis.

If you want the high res scan, I will have to put some coal in and fire up the old desktop PC

Edited by Sprocket on 15th Mar, 2009.

Edited by Sprocket on 16th Mar, 2009.

yeah sproket i totally agree with most of what you`re saying with regards to "differing" dyno figures,,, It`s ancient old hat mate,,,

I was responding to JohnK because it "Seemed" to me that he may have thought i was having a go at his flow figures,,, which i wasn`t, because our flow test on a std 16v head came up at 135cfm when his showd 150,,, is that not fair to state???

that`s why i did my "Test" with a number of (7) dynos in Brisbane, & yes i took the lowest figure out of the bunch as it was definately more realistic.

& that`s why i`m building a pattern of what heads flow what figures on whos flow bench,,, same as i did with the rolling road dynos

work out what lifts they`re measured at & what "s of water (10, 25 or what?) was the inlet manifold fitted & if so what design ??? etc etc etc,,, it`s all relevent to the figures that people are happy to toss around & i like to get an idea of what is comparable across the other side of the planet,,, that`s all.

It`s widely known here in Australia, that figures reported in mini magazines from over there (UK) are just "WAY" higher than generally thought of being "The Norm" here,,, so does that mean you guys are just soooo dam good & we`re no good at building fast cyl heads??? maybe you are , maybe you`re not,,, maybe we`re all doing the same thing, just getting differing results (More likely) ,,, i just like to know why the results are so different

one dyno against another is good (i like doing that ... as much as others hold no weight in same) , like you said with Johns demo being very similar on 2 different dynos,,, but bring it here (Aust) & i can assure you that the 7 dynos we used will """MOST CERTAINLY""" give you quite a large differnce between them,,, again,,, i like to know why,,, same with flow figures,,, i like to see where & why they vary.

One thing you may need to realise is that i have grown up right in the middle of this industry, i actually "lived" in my family mini workshop nearly my entire life,,, yes Literally """Lived in the workshop my whole life""" Racing mini specials from the age of 7 years old.

My dad (Jack) was (& i use the word "Was" as he`s very old & buggered now & doesn`t spanner much at all these days) one of the very best mini engine builders & tuners in the country for more than a few decades,,, (You would only need to speak with people like John Shmidt from Mini king & Henry Draper ex Northern Mini Spares,,, or Freddy Sayers or , basically "ANY" of the top Knowlegable & fast mini guys in Australia & you will be surely told)

He was also a very very quick peddler (driver) ,,,However, The business grew so big that we had over 18 staff most of the time (plenty more at other times) with 2 seperate shops,,, one speciffically for parts & the other specifically for the workshop... & he had to try to keep a finger on the pulse,,, So he stopped racing & slowed up on the engine building & concentrated on the parts side of it...

soo,,, I do actually have a little bit of an idea how mini engines work & what`s needed to make them go hard & last long

when i was 16 years old, i started doing the alloy V8 conversion onto the austin 1800 gearbox... similar to what Viku did in Jukka Harcolas web site, but years earlier.

Back in the days when most motorbikes had their cam chains set inbetween #2 & 3 cyl i was toying with the idea of cutting one up & making it fit onto a mini motor (because i raced bikes as well as minis)

But as soon as they changed over to the cam chain at the end of the donk, well i was away with head gasket in had & i found 3 bike heads to "Look like" they would work,,, one of those was the Bimmer & in fact was (i believe) the very first Bimmer cyl head avaliable in the wrecking yards here. (A Dropped police bike actually)

Yes,,, the fact is that i`ve been doing this conversion for a very long time.

as soon as the yamaha R6 20v came about i bought one of those too, it`s now slowly turning into a reality also,,, now i have a few,,,, & also bought 2x complete R1 power units, one of which resides in my hillclimb special, again done well before most others on the planet

You said --> """Also, you keep going on about how you have done this and that to your conversions and development over the years suggesting that you have been doing these 'kits' for years, when you only started putting the kits together last year"""

Selling my kits only last year means nothing,,,, I don`t think i`ve said much about them at all Sprocket,,, suggesting absolutely nothing except for how long it`s been since i started doing them... &&& helping out """HEAPS""" of people all over the world to work out their own problems refarding the lack of info they have been given about the kits they bought or had made,,, Now i wonder how i could have possibly helped those people (& yes some of those frequent this & many other mini boards)

Refining my kit more than 3 times before rushing out & selling the first design took a few more years than i`d have liked, yeah,,, fair enough people can have a go at me for taking so long,,, but i "borrow" the CNC machine time,,, it`s not my machine... therfor i have to wait till Bruce has some free space/time to punch out more bits

There`s now only the 3 of us working here,,, we take our time,,, i like to go for a surf every week at Byron Bay (mostly fri/sat),,, we also like to go race Down hill Mountain bikes every sunday when we`re not racing minis.

I now have (what i like to call) a decent "Life-style"... i`m in no rush mate...

Please don`t confuse a good "idea" that anyone has/had,,, with the "purchasing/selling" date of a kit,,, the kit is just a few bits you fit to a donk to make a head fit & cams turn mate,,, nothing in that about "Performance",,, they`re just bits of alloy & a few bolts & plugs, a belt & tensioner,,, all that part was worked out long before i was even on the net.

i made quite a few differnt versions before i decided on this one,,, & all by myself mine you,,, No help from my dad,,, no help from basically anyone,,, Ii didn`t use Bruces CNC equipment for them either,,, & yes one of those has also been up on my web site for probably 12 years or more, but was made before i was on the net

Sooo,,, history lesson can continue if you like to be bored shitless,,, but it won`t get any facts or figures out of my race engines till we`re happy to do so

& besides,,, i really have been sworn to secrecy,,, it`s dead true,,, i`m """Using""" a good friend of mine & i won`t betray his trust,,, sorry,,, but a deal is a deal & i won`t break confidence.

& please don`t confuse the issue i have in another thread relating to "another" twinky kit producer claiming "First" rights,,, that`s not about me, it`s about Greg Temkin,,, he should be given at least some credit, just like John K gave him credit.

sorry about the long rant,,, i don`t want any anguish between any o use,,, & besides it`s absolutely P!$$ing down rain here & i`m not about to go outside & get all wet, cold & misserable

I think this is the longest post i`ve typed ever

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"""LazyGoodForNothingSmartArseKnowItAllBackYardMiniMechanic"""

To think that the Aussie call us "whinging"

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

hee hee,,, it must be "pick on matt" day

www.miniman.com.au

"""LazyGoodForNothingSmartArseKnowItAllBackYardMiniMechanic"""

Another marathon post from MAtt :)

i can't remember the blemkinsop blokes name ,but what a pisser having a wife quicker as a driver than he was, at least she was when they came to Harewood.
they were another pair of winging twats too, thanks fook my wife has minmal intereset in cars , i'd hate to think she'd turn into a Sara Blankinsop if she ever got the bug,lol.

Peter is a gent, he's was so popular at Harewood it was all but inpossible to get the scruteneers to find any fault with his car, i can think of one mod that could have had him looked at closely,

carl

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

Carl,,, i can`t believe you did`t have a go at me or my long winded post ???

& i must say while you`re on the subject,,, i firmly believe that, given an early training, females make far better drivers,,, but hey> that`s just my opinion

www.miniman.com.au

"""LazyGoodForNothingSmartArseKnowItAllBackYardMiniMechanic"""

This topic is starting to sound a little like how this topic http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=8743 went

On 16th Mar, 2009 MadMatt said:
Carl,,, i can`t believe you did`t have a go at me or my long winded post ???

& i must say while you`re on the subject,,, i firmly believe that, given an early training, females make far better drivers,,, but hey> that`s just my opinion

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

The rolling road we use is very true and is regulary calibrated and benchmarked against stock cars, we had a stock mini sprite on a couple of weeks back and it made 50hp on the nose - we take the crown of the lowest power car on these rollers.lol!

Anyway a funny story -a friend of mine races a car in the formula Vee championship - 1300cc limited tuned Beetle motor in the back of a Formula Ford basically. Any way he'd been using a rolling road in Essex somewhere for the past couple of years- long way from Norfolk and wanted to do some pre-season carb setting and asked me for advice - I pointed him to APT whose rollers we use, he was sceptical but went for it anyway. So said friend was most impressed with the carb tuning ability of the guys up there but was mighty un-impressed with the flywheel figure of "only" 82bhp (20 horse less than the twink demo car does at the wheels-teehee!) and thought something major was amiss, anyway two days later he's at Snetterton doing a test and tune session - low and behold the car is much faster everywhere, pulling clean through the rev range - the only thing is will he admit to the rest of the paddock that he only has 82bhp - good bragging rights if he comes top six!!

JK

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

Nice one John,
We had a similar experience here last year when we put out a top spec 1380 for an X porches champion, we had it rolling roadbed at a local RR company who I trust implicitly the car made 128hp and 110fp/lb torque when we got to the track for the first day there was some paddock sniggering going on to the supposedly “low”HP figure of this car after race 1 it was 1st in class and ahead of 4 cars in the next class up, A very staying day and a true example of pub talk HP against a real quick motor built well producing the goods,
Piece out,
Paul.

jesus christ. you lot the to chill out. you'll break your keyboards soon! what have your keyboards ever done to you!!

it will be great if we can get lots of flow figures together for lots of different heads in different states of tune.....

Edited by MadMatt on 17th Mar, 2009.

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"""LazyGoodForNothingSmartArseKnowItAllBackYardMiniMechanic"""

are we talking about the same thing?

were these engines running ?

Jimster was the first to have a fully running 16v turbo, whether it be in a car or sat on the floor, it was running, and driving in july 2006, I know, I was there!

There is clearly some confusion here

This is not harrasment, just trying to straighten this all out. You lay claim to having the first of these engines Turbo Charged, yet nearly 3 years ago, Jimster claimed that title and you congratulated him without a boo to a Goose

As far as I'm concerened, it doesnt matter how good it looks, if its not running it dont count, perhaps you may think differently, I dont know.

Like I said, Im not having a go, just fining it difficult to stay on one line of thought with this.

Do you confirm Jimsters claim or not?

Sprocket,,, yes i had mine fitted with the turbo & had it all set up in my Monaco,,, it`s been all over the net for years & yes i congratulated Jimster for having his running before mine altho mine was running well before that without any boost, --->we didn`t have the turbo actually pushing air into the plenum chamber, just spinning the exhaust out , we just ran it to show the boys here ,,,& that`s why i applauded & congratulated Jimster for having his actually working,,, i don`t believe i claimed that spot in the time line at all,,, check all the previous posts & you will see that i continued to say mine wasn`t running "Properly" & nor was it driving a car "at that time"

why are you pestering me about that??? when you have obviously missed the point,,, i`ve never laid claim to that ever!!!

& rich,,, sorry typo,,, meant to be R1 & yes it has a 79mm -ish bore diam so i`ve made a spacer plate,,, much the same as David Rosenthal did with his Aussie first Honda headed engine

Please let it be known, i have never laid claim to being the first (except for having my first big bore twinky with injection running)

Yes i believe i was "Obviously" the first to "fit" a turbo & have it all manifolded up & fitted into a car (all be it not running properly)

But i`ve never laid claim to being first with much else to do with them , I`m the one trying to get Greg Temkin credit for being the actual first... I`m not flying my own "First" flag with anything esle at all,,, & it`s not even an issue in my books

What is your problem???
crickey!!!!! Do you need glasses to help you read what`s written mate>????

This was meant to be about flow figures,,, now you bark at me for not posting my findings, when i`ve clearly stated that "one" of our 2nd hand K1100 heads flowed way less than Johns , so i question that,,, & you now bark at me for some other sh!t that is well past it`s use by date,,, bringing up BS like me laying claim to being the first turbo charged twinky... what is with you??? got your buns on for sure mate,,, sorry but did i smack you in the back of the head with a shovel in a previous life or something???,,, you remind me of local rules surf rage

Edit--> OH, & before you bark at me for claiming to be the first to have a 20v head running on a mini engine , no,,, its not running & it probably won`t be running for some time either, i`m too busy typing replys to this sort of crap



Jimster,,, how do we get on mate??? How much praise have i given you over the years? How much praise do i give any/everyone who attempts these types of conversions???

Sprocket,,, sorry for being rude,,, but man,,, you`re really poking fingers at me for some reason,,, good for you mate,,, hope you feel much better for it,,, but when you finally do get what you want, try not to show your back-peddling too much hey?

Edited by MadMatt on 17th Mar, 2009.

www.miniman.com.au

"""LazyGoodForNothingSmartArseKnowItAllBackYardMiniMechanic"""

just check out the "Show us yours" thread Sproket,,, dates are quite relevent, sorry but it was fitted onto the engine & it did run not long after that mate.

But i`m not taking away from Jimsters efforts,,, he had his running & driving & that`s what you`re on about isn`t it,,, massive difference a few wirse & some fuel makes in your books, then good for you bro

But still, that`s why i`m happy with Jimster being revered to be the first turbo twinky running... i`ve no problem with that, but you seem to ???

www.miniman.com.au

"""LazyGoodForNothingSmartArseKnowItAllBackYardMiniMechanic"""