K1100 turbo startup -> first test drive (video)
Turbo Mini Forums

I filled the VE map with the suggestion tool "Generate Table"; also filled the cranking and warmupenrichments with the suggested values from the manual and the car started and ran....
But it was way too lean at idling - so I overwrote manually the table and watched my widebandlambda AFR reading and increased the VE to get about 13:1 AFR at idling.
I am not a great fan of the autotune function - especially not at idle - Matty try manually to change VE - you see on your gauges at which MAP and RPM you are idling..

The datalogger is fine - I was driving 30 minutes and analysing the data for more than 2 hours.. And there is the VE Analyzer who reads your data and suggests you new VE values to reach your programmed AFR targets.
But I am still beginner with the MS II stuff..

Bimmer Twinky headed and turboed A-Series:
http://www.minifreunde.at/harry/projects.htm

For the record. The table generator in MT is no use witth VEMS.

VEMS calculates the PW in a different way, as the wideband is part of the ECU, there is a another table, the target Lambda table. This table very similar to the VE table, except you tune it to give you the fuelng conditions you want where you want, using numbers that are in 'Lambda' (actual AFR divided by stoichiometric AFR)

The VEMS fueling calculation is the required fuel PW divided by 100, multtiplied by the VE value, divided by the target lambda. This makes for a flatter VE table as the extra PW is a factor of the target lambda and required fuel value, ratther than just the VE value. This makes it easier to change the target fuelig without upsetting the VE values.

Matty, now you have tuned the idle and got a decent VE value, and you have set the rest of the table to that, you 'should' find it drives better with the EGOc and VE learn switched on. One thing you could do is speak nicely to TurboHarry and see if you can copy his spark table

Ahhh, he is using VEMS - sorry forgot that...
yes for playing with VE numbers I also turned off acc enrichment, ego control and the autotune function - or they will fight each other and make u hopeless...

The spark table can be set for beginning like a simple dizzy - just 2D with rpm and °advance - no secrets here...if fuelling is right this will make a running and "driveable" car.

Didn't study the VEMS too much - but algorithm seems similar...(thinking in lambda makes more sense than thinking in AFR - thats right - especially when thinking about changing to other fuels than petrol...then you don't have to rethink AFRs - lambda is lambda..)

What advance at what rpm do you have programmed? You really have the advance at the pulley that you have in your Ign Map?

Bimmer Twinky headed and turboed A-Series:
http://www.minifreunde.at/harry/projects.htm

This is one of the tables. Ive got another that has more advance in the higher vacuum. Ive currently got it at 25 degrees at idle but im going to knock that back next time I start it up!

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

Matty, dont forget that we programmed that map as you were intending to run without an intercooler, so tthe numbers are a little conservative at best

Yes, conservative - but for idling and driving part throttle it shoud be ok...

Did you check with a strobe if you really get the (desired) programmed advance?

Bimmer Twinky headed and turboed A-Series:
http://www.minifreunde.at/harry/projects.htm

Harry, what MAP does your engine ilde at, out of curiosity

My engine idles at about:

85kPa @ 800RPM
80kPa @ 1200RPM
75kPa @ 1800RPM

Bad MAP sensor readout? Wrong Volt/Map curve?

Hope this helps.

Bimmer Twinky headed and turboed A-Series:
http://www.minifreunde.at/harry/projects.htm

Ah we were worried mine was a bit high at 40-60KPa at idle!

What advance are running at idle? And what rpm does it idle at?

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

Are you running RS or LT cams - I guess LT cams with this nice vacuum...

I have it running now at about 1500rpm at idle with about 20° advance at that rpm - but also tried 15° before - made no difference really....

Bimmer Twinky headed and turboed A-Series:
http://www.minifreunde.at/harry/projects.htm

Yeah im running LT but alot of the UK spec bikes (could be others also) have the same cams RS and LT, the K1 16V, K100 16V, and 1200 RS, have the bumpier sticks in them I believe.

I managed to get mine at 1050RPM but thats on 25 degress advance, im going to try less advance and see what happens now I have the fueling closer.

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

I put the datalog from my first test drive on my homepage - maybe you can find some useful data from it......

Matty, what lift do your cams have measured?

Bimmer Twinky headed and turboed A-Series:
http://www.minifreunde.at/harry/projects.htm

gosh 23 degrees timing AT 1.5 BAR , THATS A BIT MORE THAN I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT , V INTERESTING HARRY ,
WHAT COMPRESSION RATION ARE YOU USING ,MAYBE THATS WHY ITS A BIT MORE THAN ID EXPECT . ooh blast ,sorry bout the caps .

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

the 1,5 bar have not been planned....
i am using a CR of 8.75 but always had low IAT on boost (ducted big intercooler)- my 5 porter needed 28-30° at 1,5 bar to make max power - but you have to go to the dyno anyway to find the best advance you need. EGT give u also some idea if your advance is out of ballpark..

what advance would you have run (by feeling) at 1,5 bar?

Bimmer Twinky headed and turboed A-Series:
http://www.minifreunde.at/harry/projects.htm

harry ,
running the same octane we have ,around 97 ,id expect somewhere around 15 to 19 degrees , , my 5 port runs 25 on only .66 bar , , but it does come down to cam design a fair bit and how much residuals there are in the cyl on induction .
if your running the 285 cams and a fair bit of lsa that could be dropping the cyl pressure to a level where that advance is ok , as you know , its all specific to the whole design .
please realize i have not really studied your design so this is all a bit guessworkish

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

I use 100 octane fuel and the 285 cams with little less overlap than std.

have you been on the dyno with your 5 porter? I started also very conservative with ignition advance with my 5 porter and wasted a lot of power and driveability....also EGT was at about 950°C (at 11,8 AFR!) with 25°C advance.
Increasing the advance to 30° brought the power up and EGT down to 880°C at the same AFR....

Bimmer Twinky headed and turboed A-Series:
http://www.minifreunde.at/harry/projects.htm

ah thats a fair bit of octane .
yes i went on the dyno but didnt get the chance to change timing, it had 144 on 9.5 psi at 13.5 to 1 afr so id guess at 150 on the 12 to 1 its on now ,. i used a gtech pro to try different timng figures and there wasnt a huge difference from 23 to 28 degrees ,but it was best on 25 , this is with an air to air ic , if you have a look at the gt17... thread you can see the graphs of bhp and torque .
it ran a best possible quarter of 14.47 at 96.55mph , so i feel that bhp is fairly ok ,thats on a 660 kilo car with a 2.95 diff and poor grip ,oh and helical box .

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

13,5 AFR on boost worries me a little bit...u should get your AFR right and play with the advance on the dyno....
Do you know your IAT after the intercooler on boost?

Bimmer Twinky headed and turboed A-Series:
http://www.minifreunde.at/harry/projects.htm

yes it was a bit on the lean side , and that was on a slow accel ramp on the dyno too !!
im happy with the afr now.
no idea on iat im afraid .

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Harry,
Impressive work ! Everything perfectly adjusted, no more than necessary. Really impressive.
What's max RPM do you expect to reach ?

std 998 A+, g295, MD266, RHF4, 109hp @0.8bar/5400rpm

Thanxs Alpa,

did not drive too much yet - but it was pulling strong until my programmed fuel cut off at 7000RPM - expect it to rev "motivated" to 8000. But I will also try the softer LT cam on the inlet side on the dyno later....

Will have to mount my external wastegate next - and then try with low boost what it really likes to rev....

Bimmer Twinky headed and turboed A-Series:
http://www.minifreunde.at/harry/projects.htm

Do you want to place torque at middle RPM (say 4000) or at high RPM ? What's the car's purpose ?

std 998 A+, g295, MD266, RHF4, 109hp @0.8bar/5400rpm

The car is for autoslalom (and maybe a few dragraces?), so I don't want to place the maximum torque too high.....for that reason i will also try the LT cam on the dyno - maybe I am loosing too much torque low down and gain nothing useful at the top end with the RS inlet cam....

Bimmer Twinky headed and turboed A-Series:
http://www.minifreunde.at/harry/projects.htm

In that case you may use a smaller turbo to have 0 lag and be N/A at high RPM with a big wastegate. With the good head and high RPM you could get enough at high.
I believe this is what they do in WRC, turbo at low-middle, almost N/A at high.

std 998 A+, g295, MD266, RHF4, 109hp @0.8bar/5400rpm

I guess the WRC have to make it that way "thanks" to their restrictor they have to use....

I was testing a lot of turbos and was also playing around (incl. datalogging)with different turbine A/Rs on my 5 porter - and always hated the behavior of the engines when exhaust back pressure got too high on high RPM....I think I should try a VNT turbo sometime?!

External wastegate is soon ready - looking forward to drive the car again...

Bimmer Twinky headed and turboed A-Series:
http://www.minifreunde.at/harry/projects.htm