HRE's take on the 7Port (not another)
Turbo Mini Forums

Google says TF allows multi valve, so why not use it?

I seriously doubt it!

On 23rd Jan, 2010 apbellamy said:

On 23rd Jan, 2010 paul wiginton said:
whilst on the throne, pulling off

Sigged

"Turbo's make torque, and torque makes fun"

"did you know you can toast potato waffles?"

I dont know why we are talking about TF racers when the whole topic was about a 7 port head for the A series, and like I said, no one mentioned 16 valves but you

Surely 8 ports are better than 7 and obviously 7 are better than five. Never mind the number of valves

Each to their own and ech has its own characteristics.

What you have to ask yourself Paul is if push rod, rocker and 7 ports were that good, engine design would be such.

Granted getting the 8 ports on an A series means complexity in one way or another and the 7 port bridges the gap.

On the twin cam front and your repeated statements that none of them are very fast, well, that is probibly true, but what you seem to overlook is that the 5 port A series tuners have had 60 years to get it right.

Corvettes still have pushrods

[X] nail here for new monitor

Shit, I just typed out a long reply and it didnt show up.

I must admit Sprox that earlier I misread your post as valves instead of ports....wolly
Cant be arsed to retype all the rest again now

I seriously doubt it!

no worries dude, everyone has their prefference :)

I dont necessarily have anything against 16v sprox, I have a lot of respect for the way you guys have done the conversion, especially Matty for the way he made his backplate and the way you moved your bore centres to match the chambers of the head - very clever.
My original point though was that in the grand scheme of things if youre going away from 5 port, I think 7 port has got to be best and I think this casting looks nice - more like a std head

Paul

I seriously doubt it!

No disputing that Paul, and I would have one to drop ontop the 1400 (or 1450 as it will become ) But the initial cost just for the head hurts

Whooo Leave you lot alone for a a couple of hours and you gone from 7 port alle heads to TF Races lol,

The reason I went in search of this seven port was to find a cheaper alternative to solving the age-old Siamese problem, The 7 port seemed to Ideal caudate sure the initial lay out is expensive but if you already have a good bottom end then this is pretty much all you need to start playing with Fuel injection, it makes forced induction a piece of piss, you have the option of a lovely set of twin Weber if you’re a dye hard like me,

For me this was a no brainier look at the fantastic success Joe (mini13) has had with that Mini Sport head!! Imagine what he could do with something like this,

PMSL

I wouldnt call 1 slow run and a bent valve run at MITP sucess.

TBH Joe even geting one of them Iron lumps to function is a masive sucess in all honesty :) let alone puting boost trough it

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

You would have to factor the machining in for the BMW stuff? Where these 7 ports are bolt on's? (Except for small bores)

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

I think that the 7 port has a lot to offer that makes it more attractive than an 8 port.

The main thing being the choice of cam. I think there are currently only two cam choices for the K 16v head, whereas the 7 port has all the 5 port cams to choose from. I know that you could get some 16v cams reground to whatever profile but it may take some serious testing to establish what works.

What has surprised me recently was the RR shootout results. In theory the 8 ports should have ran away with it in terms of the "state of tune" of the engines. I would have expected higher peak horsepower per cc per lb of boost and higher up the rev range.

Reality is that the well sorted 5 ports were still well ahead. That was on the good old SU as well.

I'm looking forward to getting the high boost 1293 EFi Turbo running this year to see what can be done with decent port injection on the 5 port.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Paul It most defiantly looks like you have solved the Siamese Fuelling problem but on a Race or fast road type N/A 5 port this would be a much smaller problem compared to the charging robbing in high lift long duration cam’ed 5 ports, both problems are solved by the 7 port but have the added advantage of being totally compatible with all the other 5 port parts as you said in you last post making them much more attractive than the 8 Port and 16v options,

P.s. I really don’t want to sound bitch here as I know you have done an inordinate amount of work on 5 port injection which is a real credit but, saying the software is free is a little misleading when it costs nearly a grand to get all the fuel injection kit together, an of course there is a huge amount of mapping to be done when you do get that kit up and running which might not be everyone’s cup of tea
regards,
Paul.

Edited by PaulH on 24th Jan, 2010.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

I’m not really sure by your post Dave who you are getting at here but just to put a few straight on this head,

I was in California less 6 months ago and stood in the foundry where these heads are cast I can say 100% these heads are produced in the USA not China or any other country for that matter. The reason I had to go to the states to get this head as I’m sure many others did is, the little few companies in the UK that still cast Aluminium will only deal in runs or 1000's the market for 7 ports is just not that big. The company in the states that cast this head and all the other cross flow heads they produce are, willing to do small runs which in turn puts the price up but gets the heads made. I’m not sure where you get you price structure form but £600 pounds for any kind of performance cylinder head is just never going to happen even of you buy from Chine or what not.
Best regards,
Paul.

Ben I really don’t think there is any proving wrong to be done Paul’s theory is 100% sound if he gets his High HP engine up an running it will produce the goods but no mater how good the injection system it will never over come the fact if charge robbing that accurse in a five port its a simple fact of physic.

Im not sure the cost of fuel injecting a 7 port will be as much,
you can use any of the simple type after market FI systems out there bolt on a plenum and fit ONE wide band and off you go.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

All very fair points Paul, I understand 100% as I said I really did not want to start a my Head is better than a 5 port fuel injection one, I understand 100% that the heads I have are at present untested and until I have one up and running I cant say for certain how good they are all I want to do is keep the Mini community a Brest of what’s going on and if I can offer a saving and a bit of honesty to the market wile doing so, all the better.
regards,
Paul.

Edited by PaulH on 24th Jan, 2010.

In the end it all boils down to getting some of these heads out there in different configurations and see where we are then. I have to say it is nice to finally have a decent choice.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.