5-main alloy block with steel crank & rods to suit
Turbo Mini Forums

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett

I'm struggling to understand the reason to do this.

You may gain another 1000rpm or so, but unless you can get the head and cams to maintain VE at the higher revs then you wont make any more power. So it not just about the block and crank.

It is relatively straightforward to a build a 5 port turbo that will produce more power than the mini chassis can effectively put to the ground. So unless you have to stay NA for class reasons, there seems very little point.

I find it funny that we get these post from Mad Matt late on a Friday or Saturday night, Aussie time. Too much sauce if you ask me.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

lol Paul, :) Bless you Matt!

yes I've had a few Cracked and had the casing twist it's self so you can't get a lay shaft back in! i know we are at the exteme end mind, but some stronger inner parts are most needed lol.

Edited by Miniwilliams on 2nd May, 2010.

Best 1/4 mile 13.2 seconds @116 mph
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on a carb?
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on Injection?

http://www.mattwoodsphotography.com

Paul, from my point of view if I were to undertake this project it would not be to copy the A series internals. I'd undertake the design process to ensure we could get 180/200hp from the internals reliably for more than 60k miles rather than 6k miles, meaning you couldpush for bigger numbers if you were hapy to reduce time between rebuilds As ever you'll have two camps on this, the 5 ports and 3 main bearings are all you need and those whom wish to get the engine out of the 1930's and into the new millenium. Neither are wrong its just people want different things - what the mini is all about really?, nobodys right or wrong just different

if it weren't for people like Matt and his ideas the world would be a very dull place as far as I'm concerened

JK

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

John, So you'll have a bottom end capable of far more than the drops and box. From what I've seen, there are far more rebuilds undertaken due to gear problems than bore/crank.

You do not have to do away with the 5 ports and 3 main bearings to bring the A Series up to date. You may wish to propogate that idea from a marketing point of view, but there is still a lot than be done to improve it without spending thousands on 7/8 ports and a 5 bearing block.

We now have an engine management system for the 5 port that should be able to handle over 200hp. If that doesn't get the engine out of the 1930s, I do not know what will.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Why not rather adopt some modern block to the A-Series gearbox if you want 5 mains? I guess there's quite possibly one smal enough that will fit resonably well.

[X] nail here for new monitor

ok,,, hee hee, yes Colin, sorry bout that but i nearly let the cat out of the bag & really didn`t feel like trying to explain it all without saying too much, so i cut it all out

Thanks John, You have nailed it quite well & i knew that you would see "Almost-Exactly" what i`m getting at there really is more to this than meets the text/eye But at least you`re on the same page... cheers mate.

The g-box is obviously an issue for the upper end market but easy addressed, we`ve already been playing with "other" gear-kits & case strengthening etc,,, that`s all easy sorted & obviously anyone who takes the plunge & spends the money for 200+hp mini engines will (Or should) happily spend a tad more to make the box & drops stand up to the torture for (as John says) more than 6K miles

However,,, there is still more in this than i can say right now... & again i am "VERY" sorry i can`t say too much yet,,, we`re still working on a prototype atm,,, but what i can say is that if this thing actually works then i`d be sending my details to "Someone" to have the new engine made... Maybe John-K But maybe my mate in China

As some of you would (or should know) of the influx of chinese made mini items flooding the market these days yeah???,,, well a big bundle of those have come from my & my friends hard work, R&D, time & effort... I won`t bother naming any of the many items we have had made in china, but at least we have a shoe in the door with one of the biggest manufacturing plants in the world & i can only hope to keep & improve the relationship, but funding just isn`t going to come from me,,, fark i can barely make my house repayments, rates & car rego this week before i go on holidays

Sooo... """I`m""" Not able to fund this thing (The 5-main alloy block ,crank & rods etc) myself,,, but i certainly have a great starting point for the design of a wonderful platform to start with,,, it`s actually quite scary

Now,,, we can all say big Hp numbers with all sorts of engines,,, but what i`m on about is massive numbers , starting from right down low,,, VERY PULLY,,, VERY VERY broad spread of power,,, rev real hard,,, & at the same time civil, smooth & quiet with no need for lumpy cams & whacko fuel to run it on... & still fit under a round-nose bonnet

if you all just step back,,, take a breath, think outside the box for a minute, stop talking "peak" power & realize where i`m heading with this
(i believe at least John-K has)
then you might start to realize what i`m doing

My 1500cc road motor was just the start of it all for me,,, then the Twinky project,,, then Stewys 1600cc Arden x-flow, 6-speed thing helped my thoughts some more,,,, but now we`re onto another whole level again & i`m hoping (if this design actually works) that we will have the very best power delivery & power spread available... By a LONG way.

Imagine for the moment,,, just allow yourself to go with the flow,,, dream a little... & maybe some wild ideas might come to the surface

& no,,, my very late nights recently havn`t involved much drinkahols at all,,, i have stuffed my knee water ski-iing & any booze farks up the repair process,,, it`s quite sore mummy & i can`t afford to not be able to surf when i`m about to go on 3 weeks holidays in Byron bay starting this thursday so i`m wanting it healed as best it can by then

What i have been doing is finishing off a heap of customers mini engines ,,, & spending huge amounts of time on this project,,, I`ve hardly touched the 4x4 conversion on my buggy,,, that`s how solid i am with this "new-Project"

ok,,, Nuff sed

you can try to guess where i`m heading if you like,,, it would be good to see how broad your minds can get but trust me, it`s a beauty

www.miniman.com.au

"""LazyGoodForNothingSmartArseKnowItAllBackYardMiniMechanic"""

Matt - where do you get the time to write such long mails!

keep pushing fella its all good

JK

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

internationally known as "big" swede

On 3rd May, 2010 MadMatt said:


you can try to guess where i`m heading if you like,,, it would be good to see how broad your minds can get but trust me, it`s a beauty

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett

I'm sure I've heard of Kent/Cosworth blocks on Mini G.boxes to remain in class for racing ?
If so , then an alloy Millington 2.3L on a mini box should suffice for anyones dream engine ?

Interesting comments here, swift engine on a mini box is mad lol.

Im really suprised, with all the billet cnc tech out there, that someone hasnt built a drive housing that would bolt where the diff housing goes that tranfers the power to a drive axle and built something similiar to an mgb rear drive, making a mini RWD from a normal mini engine.

1/4 Mile 14.3secs 96Mph Terminal 10psi of boost.


Fibreglass Parts? - http://www.tdkracing.co.uk/
Split Rims? - http://www.force-racing.co.uk/

bda engine to mini gear box that was in a maquire racer that went to japan. Think its sat in a shopping mall now.

1/4 Mile 14.3secs 96Mph Terminal 10psi of boost.


Fibreglass Parts? - http://www.tdkracing.co.uk/
Split Rims? - http://www.force-racing.co.uk/

big number = big capacity = V8 ?

5 mains block is cool but you need a crankshaft to go with it and it's where it's getting pricey, is it not ?

Rusty by nature

you need everything as normal A series rods wont work on a 5 bearing crank either.

Basicaly you are designing a whole new engine from the ground up, just to fit an A series box? I would have to think long and hard about spending all that cash, just to retain a problematic drivetrain, race class or not.

Like others have said, it would be easier to use an OEM engine and adapt it. Just look at the Hyabusa V8!!

All i can say is i can't imagine what power levels i'd (and others ) would be at if the G box and clutch could take a shed load more, the engine isn't the problem.

Best 1/4 mile 13.2 seconds @116 mph
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on a carb?
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on Injection?

http://www.mattwoodsphotography.com

I've recently been thinking about how to extract huge amounts of power from an inline A Series using high boost and exotic fuels. In theory, 500hp would be achievable from 1275cc, although much work would need to be done.

Speaking to a local chassis builder with over 30 years experience in this sort of thing, he said "How would you keep the crank in the block?". After a bit of discussion, we concluded that we would need some sort of girdle to keep the main caps in place.

The relevance to this discussion is that most high performance alloy 5 bearing blocks have a crank centreline above the sump flange. This creates a much stiffer bottom end.

Can you achieve the advantages of the 5 bearing block without doing the same?

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Broad spread, usable power,,, idles & drives around town nice & smooth,,, quiet, not lumpy, not rough, not hard to drive,,, wide ratio box suitable,,, street-able, with syncro box so it`s civilized to drive,,,, plenty of low down grunt, even more mid range grunt & yet still plenty more up-top again,,, well over 200hp available N/A, & depending on how strong the crank ends up, should rev hard over 9K easily (crossing fingers at this stage on that one tho)

Definitely Not hi end , peaky, short spread only

& yeah of course it won`t cost 15quid,,, if you want a nice thing it will obviously cost lots,,, & of course not everyone will want one, let alone be able to afford one

But fit`s into a std round nose body, no frame or body mods... inlet at the back & ex-pipes at the front, so no stoopid/ugly bonnet bulge

up to almost 1800cc compatible, so anything "up-to" that will work nice (providing our proto handles it)

& Mr Advantage--> yes there is heaps of room for the V8 design to be evolved from this & that is the plan once we finish this 4cyl prototypo

lots of "off-the-shelf" , easily & cheaply available/obtainable items used for the build,,, but yes some quite expensive chunks of material & machining involved too

Add the super strong 5-speed gear kit with strengthened case (to come at a later date) & then bung the turbo onto that as well if you wish

If you think i`m nuts, then all i can say is you`re nuts for thinking i`m nuts. Simply Because it`s easier than you think

More confirmation on it`s progress came today with the return of a few items--> 2x big chunks of machined alloy 36mm x 24mm x 12mm ,,, a 30mm diam length of machined alloy rod,, & 2x steel gears fresh from the EMS-CNC hot wire cutting machine

However i`m still in the middle of making the wooden "dummy" crank-shaft

hee-hee

think outside the box & you`ll be closer to imagining

& hey,,, if this doesn`t work then i`ve just had fun thinking it all up & playing with some expensive machining toys & that`s all & the end of it.

But if it does work then we "Could" shred std mini g-boxes within an hour

Sprocket,,, i gather your post about the rods was in response to Advantages post , so yes of course rods are needed too (as the title of the thread indicates),,, i didn`t even bother to try to off-set mini rods another 12mm more than they already are



why am i bothering with all this? you may ask,,,???

well,,, every man & his dog has a cross-flow 7 or 8-port,,., or a Twinky 8v or 16v, or a turbo mini now,,, it`s all old hat,,, & i want something different with massive grunt ->broad spread , that doesn`t weigh much , for my Monaco fast-back mini

ok,,, i`m goin on 3-weeks holiday to Byron bay starting this thursday (2 lack of sleeps to go) I`ve given 2 different machinists some jobs each while i`m away (hope they don`t stuff them up cause that will cost me lots) i`ll report back when i get back at the end of the month

cheers guys & don`t forget to breath

& John-K,,, i`m writing heaps now cause i won`t be typing here for 3-weeks-ish so i`m getting as much in as i can

Edited by MadMatt on 4th May, 2010.

www.miniman.com.au

"""LazyGoodForNothingSmartArseKnowItAllBackYardMiniMechanic"""

www.miniman.com.au

"""LazyGoodForNothingSmartArseKnowItAllBackYardMiniMechanic"""

[X] nail here for new monitor

I was thinking get hold of an a series block and remake in ally with the same external features, without the dizzy hole and the cam holes, and stick it in a classic looking car with a crazy engine in it that looks a series to the untrained eye. Apart from the k head and injection lol.

In boost we trust

yeah, but the mini box is nice & compact,,, it also actually fits in the car, under the donk & utilises the engine mounting system that works ok & is bolt-up,,, so essentially there is no subframe or body mods needed.

we have a fella here already "Playing" with big gear kits & strengthening of the cases (he`ll be a while off before he`s finished i`m sure) the cases aren`t all "That" bad & providing we "beef" the up a bit we "should" be ok (cross fingers)

oh & the gearbox upgrade absolutely & most definatley does away with the original drops-gears

has anyone checked out the 6-speed dog-box gearbox video of mine on youtube???

I`m not sure but i think you can see the massive idler gear pin,,, (i`ll have to have another look myself ,sorry i`m unsure if it`s visible) but anyways,,, imagine a much larger one again, set lower in the case,,, but "It" becomes the input shaft with a big gear attached to it ,,, yes you guessed it--> the new box will only have 2x drop gears

fun hey?

www.miniman.com.au

"""LazyGoodForNothingSmartArseKnowItAllBackYardMiniMechanic"""

ok,,, i`ve just checked youtube & yes that massive ider gear pin is visible



Some people (I`m sure) will think i`m strange,,, & you`re probably right,,, that 6-speed mini dog box cost over $10K,,, & earlier this year i spent nearly $11K on beefing up my vee-dub Kombi gearbox,,, then another $2k just on axles,CV joints & drive flanges,,, the clutch was over $2K & now i`m just splitting engine mounts

so what if i like pulling massive wheel-stands in my kombi,,, i want it to last tho too,,, so it costs money right??? & it also costs a shit-load of time to design & test & develop these things so they don`t break

isn`t this how we improve our cars???

soooo,,, am i really that strange???

Edited by MadMatt on 4th May, 2010.

www.miniman.com.au

"""LazyGoodForNothingSmartArseKnowItAllBackYardMiniMechanic"""

Hmm but once you've changed the crank, rods, block, gearbox, head you might as well just go and buy a vtec to install and save several pounds...

Im not trying to piddle on anyones fire but I dont think there is a market out there for a £10,000 custom engine for minis

How about a nice thick ally plate on top the mini g.box , to which is bolted one of these -
http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562068.htm