ignition map
Turbo Mini Forums

AlexF

oh, you buying a dyno now?

Just some time...

alex

AlexF

Dave,

The beauty of an ignition map that is rpm vs MAP is that when you do plant your foot the MAP will change anyway and the ignition map will move to another location and deal with it. Adding tps into the equation would mean days on the rolling for minimal gain. The megasquirt in injection mode obviously uses the tps to deal with sudden increase in throttle. If it didn't it would be usless, but on ignition I don't see the point.

Also now I know that EDIS can be a little unreliable I will put a spare in the boot incase of emergencies.....

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

Hi there,

Started with MJLJ as well. In my opinion truly a great system for the $$$. Also much easier to modify any ignition curve then re-curving your dizzy. Recurving has to happen anyway to get the best out of a heavily modified engine which most of us have.

Anyway, is there anyone who wants to share their (MJLJ) igniton map?

Cheers,
Bas

Op de bank beleef je geen avonturen

Ok Alex sorry it took so long to find...


P.s. It's not mine by the way.

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.

Thanks for the map.
I came across that map also. If I am not mistaken it is the same as on the forum on the picasso website, from a na mini

Cheers

Op de bank beleef je geen avonturen

It looks like we will have the hilclimber on the rollers before the start of the season. so after the session I will post the map that we create. I know it is quite different from most of the turbo engines on here, but it should be close enough for a start.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

OK here is the map for all who are interested. I would not say it is a great map for a road car, because we did not waste time making the map work for crusing conditions and that is all just a guess. The important points are between 2000rpm and 4000rpm where the car comes on boost. We concentrated around here while tuning and got good results, with the boost comming in much quicker. Obviously this is for 998cc so i don't know where boost starts to build on any other engines. The 14s that you see all over the lower rpm bins are an attempt at some idle control this is yet to be fully sorted. I would expect also that the advance could be increased under cruse conditions, but this is quite easy to do driving around with a laptop. Anyway the map.

19.4 25 25 25 25 25 25 25 25 25 25 25 25
15.3 26 26 26 26 26 26 26 26 26 26 26 26
11.1 27 27 29 29 29 29 29 27 27 27 27 27
6.9 28 28 31 31 31 31 31 28 28 28 28 28
2.8 29 29 31 31 31 31 31 29 29 29 29 29
0.0 29 14 32 32 32 32 32 30 30 33 34 35
-2.1 29 14 19 30 30 30 30 30 33 35 36 37
-3.5 29 14 21 22 26 29 31 33 35 37 38 39
-5.5 29 14 23 24 30 34 35 36 38 40 41 42
-6.9 29 14 25 28 33 37 40 41 45 45 45 45
-9.7 29 14 25 30 35 42 45 47 50 50 50 50
-12.5 29 14 25 30 35 42 45 47 50 50 50 50
500 1000 1500 2000 2500 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500

It turns out it is a pain to post, I can't post anything better at the moment. Anyway the left hand column is PSI and the bottom is RPM. Everything else is degrees advanced.

Sorted it now

Edited by Ben H on 23rd Mar, 2005.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

thanks ben!

Alex

AlexF

ben, what software is that? MegaTune?

Hi Ben,

What is your engine spec (intercooled, CR)? Then I can adjust the figures a bit to my engine.

I will post my map also when I got it up and running. Now doing some plumbing work with an 4wd cossy intercooler.

Cheers

Op de bank beleef je geen avonturen

The ignition system is Megasquirt & EDIS, running the Extra code. The extra code has lots of features, but I am using it because of the 12x12 map.

I am not sure how transferable this map is to any other car. For a start our engine is a 998cc.

I created my map before taking it to the rolling road and it did not change radically while we were there. Based on the dizzy timing I knew the engine ran well on boost (18psi) at 25 degrees advanced. So that is the advance I put in at maximum boost, then I worked backwards from there.

It is also very important that you run good fuel. We run Optimax with Millers CVL. This gives 101octane so we can run higher advance without detination. There is no knock sensor and we always run the same fuel. However, we will still have to keep an eye on it on hot days and make sure we get no detination. That is untill I get the inlet air temp input sorted.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

Popeye, CR = 7.3:1, Intercooled - Yes

See http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=4219

And
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=4213

Wil

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

hot days???

Arn't cold days more of an issue?

Alex

AlexF

Edited by Mike on 24th Mar, 2005.

Deffo hot days.

The hotter the ambient temperature the hotter the engine the hotter the intake charge, the more chance of detonation.

Cooler air better, that's why we all use intercoolers, this is a basic theory, surely?

Wil

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

As far as I understand it the hotter the inlet air temperature the more likely it is you will get detonation. That is one reason why you need an intercooler to run more boost. So if the inlet air temp increases to much the ignition should be retarded

I don't see that a cold day will make much difference. Has this been seen that the air temp is cold enough to make the air dense enough to increase the compression to a detonation point. I would have thought that the increase in temperature created by the turbo would stop this.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

Cold air is denser... so you run an intercooler to take out the heat the turbocharger has added to the air. Typically the more boost you get from a turbo the more heat it produces... its all in the efficency of the turbo and what part of the compressor map you are running in.

The on-set of det is closly linked to combustion tempreture in the cylinder during the burn, which is effected hugely by mixture but also by ign timing. Over all the temp of the air temp outside is not going to vary by more than 30 degrees from winter to summer, but a few psi and do that in fractions of a second.

The colder the day, the denser the air as you say... but also the better at cooling your Air Charge Temps your IC is.

So you will run leaner on a cold day than on a hot day.

Ign timing is function of engine speed, boost, cylinder head design and temp. The 1st two are critical.

I know 2 or three tuners that will not map cars during the middle of summer because as soon as you boot it in the middle of winter your running lean. Admitadly they tune Cosworth YB engines and if you stick with the standard injectors you limit the total amount of fuel you can run... and they are both running the engine right to the fueling limits!

Just a few thought before everyone gets their flame throwers out!

alex

AlexF

I never thought of it like that before. I guess that is why production cars tend to have intercoolers that are bypassed when it is cold.

As our car never runs in the winter I am more concerned with hot inlet air temp detonation than leaning out due to cold air.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

It does make sense, its the reason why most fuel injected stuff feels faster (well, IS faster) on a crisp cold morning, and also the same reason that my turbo diesel produces more boost in the cold conditions than it normally will on a hot day etc.

Just found out...

the OEM maps for things like Ford RS Turbos and Cosworths do not retard the timing untill the air charge temps go over 60-70 degrees C!!!!!

So it can't be a massive effect...

Alex

AlexF

The Ford RS Turbo has a map?!

I thought it used clockwork ignition??

Have you ever measured you inlet temperature while on boost? I would say 70c is quite attainable. On a friends N/A imp we got nearly well into the 30's just driving around. I am pretty sure we have measured 60c before the intercooler when we were running much less boost.

I think I will be getting two air temp sensors put one before the intercooler, one after and log it during an event. I think that will be interesting to see how hot it gets.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

when I get my act together I am going to measure the temp at every point round and in my engine :)

I've got the kit but not the time... and also waiting on a certain company to finish their RR intalation LOL.

It'll be interesting to see the results on the RR vs on the road vs the theory. :)


You certianly "chip" RSTs... and as they run Mechanical fuel injection......

Alex

AlexF