General Advice For A Total Novice!
Turbo Mini Forums

Just go for 1293. Then if/when you blow it up your block has got a few more goes in it.

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of.

Lovely, thanks!

A 1380 is torqueyer than a 1293 but unless you want to fork out for a new block each time you blow it, go 1293. There isn't much in it.

TBH the difference between 1293 and 1380 when turbo'd can be evened up by a psi or 2 of boost.

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of.

in theory a 1380 will have less lag, more engine cc's to spin the turbo up (other factor obviously affect this aswell tho). the dyno results on markgtt's 1380 in minimag or miniworld (cant remember which one) but the results show it spooling up quicker. but alot of the high powered ones are 1293. ive gone for 1380 mostly for this reason. personal prefferance really. but if you do go 1380 it isnt that dear to get a spare block if the worst happens.

Edited by Rick.SPI on 31st Jan, 2011.

I wish I had bought +20 accralites to be honest. However at the time the 73.5mm ones were a bargain. I worry that if I nuke it that the block is scrap (along with all the mods I have had done to it)

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of.

the less you overbore it the more cylinder wall is left so stronger/more reliable but don’t quote me as there as there are guys on here that have 1380s and they are fine, but most people go for 1293s +20

the laggyness is down to the size of turbo ie t2/t3 and compression ratio of the engine, not so much the over bore.
A large cc piston dish and large chamber in the head will lower the compression meaning its not as powerful till the turbo comes in. but you can then run a lot more boost.

if you go for a t2 lag is the last thing you need to worry about I am on boost at 2500rpm which is pretty much in by the time you are off the line, so never see any lag. it makes for a perfect car for the twisty roads as you are always on boost

i run a 1293, 12psi cr=8.0:1 on a t2

However you are limited to 15psi on a stock t2, which is why i have just got a hybrid turbo as i can run more boost on that low cr

Edited by turbominij on 31st Jan, 2011.

"Tuning should be a compromise between what is possible and what is necessary"

10)Thou shalt always quest for more power

I think 12-15 psi for my first turbo build will be more than adequate!

Theres always scope to expand and develop when and where i have the money and time available

Probably another newb question, but:

Can you set when the turbo does actually come on. I'd like it to be at around 3k, running the engine to around 5-5.5k before gear change.

This is where i feel my current 1275 really lacks its oomph.

No that's all dependent on the size of the turbo so the only way to do that would be usig a hybrid turbo using an exhaust side halfway between a t2and t3 or a totally different turbo.

"Tuning should be a compromise between what is possible and what is necessary"

10)Thou shalt always quest for more power

With some help from a couple of mates and additional bit from TMF (cheeky i know), this is the spec i'v come up with.

T2 turbo on mirage manifolds
Modified head - 29mm exhaust, 36 inlet + ported & polished
1293 block rehoned & refaced
ARP head studs & drill block & head to fit 11
Cast Omega Pistons
ARP rod bolts
Kent 266 cam
Vernier Duplex Timing chain
Grey diaphragm & AP rally backplate
Twin pin diff
Intercooler
High capacity oil pump
High grade cam followers
Quality main & big end shells
Other new odds and sods that crop up along the way.

Compression ratio of 8.6:1.

If there's anything i'v missed out or don't really need, please let me know.

One of the main gripes i have is that its been recommended to go for straight cut drops, but i'm a right audiophile and the whine the box would produce would ruin my music 'experience' (although i love the sound itself). However Turbo Phil's website says its not 100% necessary for my type of build, so i think il take the risk...

Edited by carts60 on 1st Feb, 2011.

cart old chap,

you dont need the following for 130 bhp ....

11 stud .

arp bolts head or big end , stock fine.

kent 266 , id go mg metro or stock cam ,

duplex vernier,simplex fine

ap rally clutch plate ,stock turbo fine .

omega pistons ,the cast rover ones would be fine .

straight cut drops,my helicals are fine at 240 odd bhp.

key thing is ,dont boost it and hoon around without any setting up on a dyno .

regards
robert

Edited by robert on 2nd Feb, 2011.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Half of that stuff you don't need to get as Robert says. People seem to think you HAVE to buy the best of everything but you'd be surprised.

Also, your turbo spooling up is going to ruin your music experience anyway

haha! The turbo spool sound is amazing though and its not a constant whine! Id happily sacrifice music for that!!

Robert, thatsa great help.


Thanks for everyones help!

I know some of the stuff isnt needed that much, but going the extra mile on some bits (if the purse strings allow) will let me to up the spec along the way without having to buy new bits.

You've obviously got a fair bit of info on the actula engine spec above and I'd go back to the basics to actually work in hand. I've been putting a bit of thought to this in the last few hours regarding time to remove the engine, build up etc.

I think most of us will agree that we take a lot less time to do an engine change now to when we first started all this. Whatever you you think it will take you, you can bet some spanner will end up in the works and it will take that bit longer! I remember my first engine swap took me a couple of days whereas now i could do it easily in a day. Experience counts so it would be good to find a local enthusiast who could come round and point out all the little tricks to help you on your way - i'd be happy to but its a bit of a trek!

The other thing that will help you enormously will be a good tool set or access to some. I've no idea what youve got at the moment to help compile an additional list but again, quality and the correct tools can make light work of certain items.

No doubt good advice Rob!

If anybody is indeed interested on helping me remove the engine, id be more than happy to lay on some tea and biscuits! (this won't be until the summer, so a beer and crisps may be more appropriate!!) - i'll be in Bromley, SE London when this is all going on for future reference...

Tools wise, iv got an array of sockets & ratchets, ratchet spanners, general bits and bobs - enough to sort out most jobs.

What i am lacking though is a welder (not a clue how to weld) and a torque wrench which i am very aware is vital to an engine build!

I'v tried to give myself a lenient timescale! I believe im quite mechanically minded and good with my hands, and iv basically doubled what i think it would take me to do. So 4 days to remove the engine, two weeks to dis-assemble, 2 weeks to re-assemble and another 4 days to re-fit the engine.

Its also not going to be major if i over run this time either, as iv also decided its going to be better to build a second engine rather than take out my current one. This allows me to find a part time job in between and not be stuck having to get lifts or a bus everywhere!

Iv also been quite pleased about the insurance side of things. One of my main worries was that insurance would go through the roof, or i wouldnt even be able to find any.

Looking online, apparently my premium is going to increase by £200-300, making it around 1k at the moment!

Not bad i think? Anybody care to offer opinions?

I'll be 22 with what will be 4 years no claims in september - probably when the car will be ready for (touch wood).

Although my premium doubled this year, because when you turn 21, apparently you cant get TPTF insurance on a classic car policy - consequently, i went from paying £350 to £750! OUTRAGEOUS!!!!

Edited by carts60 on 3rd Feb, 2011.

Just come back to this thread so I,m well behind at the moment.

I saved some money I suppose in that initially I modded my own head, used S/H Metro turbo pistons and the cam that came with the engine (Midget 1275).
I bought a S/H Punto Gt intercooler and made all the pipes from exhaust tubing -the cost of the Samco blue hoses nearly made me weep at the time.

This gave, without a proper RR setup, and on the Midger distributor, 114bhp.

I now have a Turbophil head etc etc etc so the budget figure of £1000 is now history.

I do reccommend that you buy and fit an AFR gauge so that you can see what is happening when you up the boost, as you surely will.

You'll need a big hammer aswell, for when things go wrong

I thought id add this new question to my current thread rather than clog up site somewhere else - for something which is probably going to be another noob question.

I saw Matty has been making some manifolds to allow for the fitting of a GT17 without bulkhead mods, which lead me to ask what does a GT17 offer over and above a T2?

I gather the T series manifolds are getting past their sell by date and newer turbos can be a better choice, but what are the differences exactly?

GT17 is a more modern turbo. So more efficient. Seems to spool up similar to a T2 on a 1275 and it seems people get a little more power for the same boost as they do with a T2/T3

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of.

Get a Haynes manual and have it for bedtime reading, that will prove invaluable when you remove the engine. As for spec, mine is around 130bhp and has more or less standard metty turbo stuff apart from, a xpin diff, benross head, forged accralites and probably the most essentilal, a pre verto clutch as the verto was not up to the job at all.
And beleive me, the T3 kicks in big time at around 3k with 10psi but not much lower down. When its driving and you put your foot down its, wait for it....wait for it...wait forit.. here it comes....Oh shitttttt!!!!!

133.5 bhp 123 lb torque 116mph @6640rpm 9.5psi
Shakespear RWYB 14.995 91.83mph

I already have a Haynes Manual and its so far proven invaluable. I'v also got the yellow bible although thats rather more deep and technical than anything i'd want to be reading at bed time lol

I'm glad the GT17 is more similar to a T2 than a T3, but i'v been scouring ebay for one to see what kind of price they go for. One is up for £80 but seems like scrap - the spindle (think thats what its called) has 3mm of play and has led to the compressor vanes to contact the housing causing all sorts of damage. Others which i guess are in better condition are up for between £200 - £450!!

I think my saviour is going to be Bill Sollis' DVD 'Ultimate Mini Engine Builder' i think its called where he strips and rebuilds a 1380.

With some common sense and adapting the same ideas to different parts i don't see why stripping and rebuilding the engine into turbo form shouldnt be 'too' hard lol

The one thing i am worried about is the small fabricating jobs that I see cropping up in nearly every build thread I'v read.

a) I can't weld though i'm going to try and learn (under the proviso I can convince the old man buying a welder is going to be cost effective in the long run)

b) I'v never tried metal work, nor have any tools for it

BUT, hopefully with the use of a mirage manifold, or one from Matty for a GT17, everything should be gravy.

Fabrication is a skill you will quickly pick up I hade non when I started this project and I'm now about to rts my clutch, weather or not your good at it is basicly determined by if you plan it well, have an understanding of what your trying to achieve and take your time :)
my GT17 cost me £90 and apart from the actuator adjusted being rusted solid the rest of the turbo is fine you just have to hunt

I would suggest having a very good read of the site http://www.turbo-mini.com/

Yeah, I'v frequented Turbo-Mini.com a number of times. Excellent site and will no prove to be extremely helpful when it comes to the build

here my 5 pence worth.

ive got std 1275 running at 10psi with a phil head and its 160bhp. you will find 12psi more than enough on the road. :) goodluck

On 30th Jan, 2011 carts60 said:
Lovely job.

Sorry for SO many questions, but:

If the metty runs 95 'nanas' at 7psi with the extra 3-5psi not being 'a massive amount more', is running 12psi realistically going to produce 130bhp?

Reason i ask is because at the moment, 'psi' doesnt really hold a 'physical boost value' for my brain - its just a number. Without knowing how much a single psi adds to bhp im just a bit confused!

Does that make sense?

When you say a standard 1275, have you literally bolted on a turbo and just let rip?

I really can't wait to get cracking now. What with show season coming up, im hoping to pick up a block and some other bits soon. Once i'v got that, theres nothing to stop me from going full steam ahead - apart from my university finals lol No biggy then...