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Turbo Mini Forums

Ok first of, this site is a great place to start for the ins and outs of DIY N2O, also worth checking the back of Vizards - Tuning the A-series aswell.

The system below would be good for upto +50bhp. After that the nylons hoses would need to be upgraded to braided hose. The solenoids are good upto to +140bhp, I doubt that that's going to be applicable to an A-series setup though
I'm planning +15bhp or so, just to get the extra exhaust gases flowing off-boost. Most of the fittings should be available locally.
Quick list of bits needed;

Bottle - any CO2 bottle (ie fire extinguisher) will do. Probably a good idea to get it tested by a fire extinguisher test centre though (yellow pages).

Bottle Valve - Must be a 'blow off' type to prevent the bottle exploding in the event of overpressure. These can be had from fire extinguiser renovation or welding supply shops.

Regulator CO2 adapter - This screws onto the standard CO2 bottle valve and allows connection to 1/8th BSP to feed the soleniod. Fire extinguisher resuply/maintenance company/welding supply store?
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N2O Solenoid - Rated upto 1500psi@10vDC. This () company does em', quote Part number 04-211-101-24-6vdc 10w.

Fuel Solenoid - 100psi@10vDC. Part Number 06-211-102-21-6vdc 5w.

Jet Holders for solenoids - 1/8th BSP to 4mm nylon hose metal fitting with nuts and olives.

N2O/Fuel Jets - Weber carb jets not sure where to get these yet probably available localy?

Injector/Fogger - Pretty much fab something up to tap into the maifold and connect to 4mm nylon hose. Alternatively 'proper' foggers can be bought from
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Switches - Dashboard arming switch, Throttle body micro switch. Electric cabling/relay's etc.

Hose's/Fittings;
Bottle - N2O Solenoid = 4mm o/d, 1.7 i/d nylon hose.
N20 Solenoid - Manifold = 4mm o/d, 1.7 i/d nylon hose.
Fuel System - Fuel Solenoid - Manifold = 6mm T connector, 6mm Tail piece and clamps, 4mm o/d, 2.5 i/d nylon hose.


That's about it, the solenoids are about £40 for the nitrous and £20 for the fuel. So with a second hand CO2 bottle it should be do-able for well under £150. Alot of safety considerations but nothing that can't be solved. Credit to John Williamson and his site where I got alot of info.
Anyone else thinking of having a go?

Edited by andygardner on 20th May, 2005.

Alexf2003, hows XBH 55J ? Scared yourself in it yet? what du think of it? (sorry for butting in on a topic :0/ )

the paint master! D

I haven't been able to get to PC for a day and i've just seen all your replys!

hogster, i might go for it mate as the Mini is very aerodynamic as you no

Hi Ben cheers for your post, Yes I have a micro switch and an arming switch already mate, (nice to see your thinking safely though:)) I've tried to fit as much safety in as I can but you hear so many BAD things about gas that you can't help but being paranoid about using it. That's one other reason for using a small jet, in fact i had to get smaller onces for it as it was over doing it a little!

Beleive it or now Ben i STILL have lag, but it so bad or gas that it's now better i guess if you used it on a car with out much lag then you could get it to have almost non:)!

Alex I see what your saying mate but I'm not putting 50 - 100 shot in so I fell confident it will be ok after around 2500 - 3000 rpm.

Yes Tom if i put more in it would be even better!

LOL, Dave, who knows mate I still think there is someone out there with more!

wolfie I have a NX Kit, but they all do the same thing.

T3, well mate i had to do some thing to stop your advances didn't I

Andy That kit sound good for the money:)

MW

Best 1/4 mile 13.2 seconds @116 mph
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on a carb?
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on Injection?

http://www.mattwoodsphotography.com

andy

magic, why pay 600quid + for a kit ?
with some time & patience build your own.

patientley reserched! good links.

mat, loads of .............LAG..................................................>

port velocities, cam choice & turbo sizing as you know
get these right all together with a shot of gas ...

it would eradicate nearly ALL the lag.

but thats more pain out of the pocket!

MW sure has loads of power, but what about that thing in South America. Jamaica was it? What on earth is that?

Good effort none the less.

Deffinately benross there seems to be a lot of contradicting info out there regarding N2O which im sure suits the suppliers of kits very nicely
Its deffinately not rocket science though, well, as close as were gonna get in a mini!

MW just out of interest for when I come to do mine what sort of injector setup are you using fogger/nozzle and where abouts is it plumbed in?

yes Ben i know what your saying
Andy it's a single fogger/nozzle. in the intake pipe from the blower after the intercooler. I put it there as it was Very easy to do.

Best 1/4 mile 13.2 seconds @116 mph
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on a carb?
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on Injection?

http://www.mattwoodsphotography.com

Also forgot to ask is it wet or dry?
So your plumbed in just before the plenum, I was thinking of doing the same but wondered if it could create problems running the N2O and extra fuel through the carb. Can't think of anything offhand though? Any thoughts?
Id heard to try and get as close to the cyclinder as possible to reduce expansion but aslong as it gets in there and works. It would certainly save a job to go in before the plenum.
Im suprised you're still experiencing lag though, the extra exhaust gasses are supposed to get the turbo spinning straight away?

the ideal position for the nozzles is in the intake manifold to each port..

there are BIGGER larger response gains to be had there

this is the place mat but its a lot more of a
nob ache!

but well worth it

It is if you want to promote charge-stealling Ben.

Best place for the A-series is to use a single Nitrous injection nozzle well before the inlet tract splits into each port.

Easy on a turbo instal, not so easy on a Weber setup...

Edited by turbodave16v on 20th May, 2005.

Andy - You won't find a dry system on any car running an SU i reckon!

OH DEAR!!!, i see tears at bed time for some folk.



carl

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

I hear that Dave would be a quick way to build a grenade i think!

Would you reccomend going in before the plenum then? I was thinking of going into the centre of the manifold (vacuum pipe for servo?).

I suppose the big question is wether the gas would seperate nicely between both ports. Before the plenum would certainly make things easier however the whole point would be to eliminate lag and I'm not sure what effect moving further away from the cyclinder would have.
What dya reckon?

charge stealing.

may be so, but for a "Quick" shot of gas and then off again it would be only in hundredths of a second ......

carl i believe you have a bit of gas experience!
would like to hear your oppinion and input,

no tears at bedtime! to old for that carl

Edited by BENROSS on 20th May, 2005.

Bit of a random change of tack, but how does anti-lag as used on the WRC cars work? As I understand it (and judging by the popping and flames) do they inject extra fuel over and above that needed, so it burns in the exhaust, hence providing heat and gas to keep the turbo spinning?

Anti lag is simple:

You retard the timing 40 degrees and open up the throttle to keep the engine idleing.

The charge then burns down through the turbo and can make boost on idle!!!!

But you can't do it without a special turbo (think Marmand shaft) that can deal with the heat!!

Alex

AlexF

Tom, The antilag betwen shifts as you mention is pretty much as you describe - either the throttle is kept wide open and fuel injected in, and the ignition pulled back to drop the rpm by the required amount for the next gearchange triggered by a sensor on the clutch pedal, or a fly-by-wire throttle (or bypass valve) can be used to actually delay the closing of the throttle disc (again, when the clutch sensor is triggered) along with oodles of fuel. You can get to a certain point and have reasonable reliability, but as Alex says, try emulating the WRC kinda tactics and turbo's will be taking the early bath! LOL!

D

One of the Best Nitrous discussions I've seen is here:
http://p211.ezboard.com/fminiclassicfrm12....opicID=36.topic
Lots of discussions and expert answers.

I reckon 'they all do the same thing' is a valid comment, but totally agree with you on the quality and support from Highpower.

I'm more than happy with the quailty of my kit (250 pounds) for it, the quailty for that price is TOP.

But yes it does change so much from make to make, as some kits have better pipes than others where others have better other parts.

It was just a test run, here's the post again for you to read.

"IF the switch falls Can we do a test run with the gas On full boost to see if it holds, then if the switch falls I know my engine shouldn't blow, as it's a small amount of gas i might not no it's still on. So that's where the extra power came from. I'm using the smallest jets I can get for the kit (35 bhp) as I don't want to blow things up and it's to dame pricey to keep filling the bottle!"

Edited by Miniwilliams on 24th May, 2005.

Best 1/4 mile 13.2 seconds @116 mph
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on a carb?
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on Injection?

http://www.mattwoodsphotography.com

AlexF

Also down to those peeps that think they can inject 100hp of gas into a 100hp engine! Doesn't matter how progressivly you hit it, it's just not going to happen!


Funny when you hear about it mind! ha ha ha!!

Nitrous is a power boosting modification.
When adding performance enhancing parts other parts may also need to be upgraded.
Like with all things their are limits to how far you can go before something breaks.
I for one am aware of a 150hp Toyota Celica which runs 150hp of nitrous on a standard engine with no issues what so ever.
This guy has run nitrous on his cars for the past 10 years without issue.

100hp on an engine with 100hp is possible but it depends on the design limitations of the engine and whether you are prepared to make appropriate upgrades as and when parts reach the edge of their design envelope.

I wonder how much nitrous Carl puts through each of his engines for example.
Ian Johnson is also running nitrous injection of his forced induction motors now.

One final point is that with forced induction you are likely to get back more than you put in.
That is to say in some cases you may see twice the horse power addition of the kit rating.
i.e. A 25hp shot may yield a 50hp gain.

If people wish to use nitrous on a regular basis more can be injected if a lower boost pressure is run.
Don't expect to put a 75hp shot through an engine running 160bhp on 1bar boost and expect it to hold together.
Everything has its limits but it can be expensive finding them.

and you need to watch the welds on your intake manifold...................