Why would you supercharge when you can turbocharge??
Turbo Mini Forums

do it .

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

On 19th of May, 2007 at 05:05pm ppj_racing said:

On 18th of May, 2007 at 03:47pm stevieturbo said:


Except you cant compare boost for boost with 2 different sources.

Why not?

On 18th of May, 2007 at 03:47pm stevieturbo said:


Even 2 different turbos at 0.5 bar can yield massively different results.

Bang a decent sized twin screw blower onto a Mini at 0.5bar,

0.5 bar ...!!! hardly seems worth the effort!

Came on here hoping to have help increasing
knowledge of turboing Minis

We already successfully race a 700 bhp rallycross
car .. obviously not a Mini, but for son/fun etc
plan to use a 1480 block that we already have
plus T3 turbo plus Kugelfischer pump
plus chargecooler from Lotus Carlton
and we've had a lot of negative stuff

e.g. some said (can't find the quote now)
that it's no good boosting big bore blocks
because of blow-by! Get real! That was
a prob 15b years ago but now with the
technology and dosh, you can have
liners with perfect geometry, nice
pistons with steel gas-nitrided rings
with Napier style profiles and
ductile steel too ... the higher the boost
the more the ring is forced against
the liner.

Torque plate honing to avoid distortion
when torquing down head bolts is crucial

We can blow big-bore engines OK
Just wanted some +ve stuff re: Minis
Going ahead with the project ... ignoring
the detractors.

Thought someone might highlight
potential clutch and gearbox probs
AND SOLUTIONS.

We have seen the drag-Minis claiming
280 - 300 bhp and so IT IS DOable

We have drums of very hi RON fuel
We regularly boost a big engine
to 2.2 bar .. max 2.5

BMW boosted their 4-pot 1500cc
engine to 4 bar .. we realise the
Mini block isn't the same, but then
again we're not looking for as much
power. A 1500 n-a engine should
give 140+ bhp with today's technology
so 200+ bhp by using a nice bit of
boost shouldn't be a prob!

Vee haff ways of making it verk!

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

Edited by ppj_racing on 21st May, 2007.

I think the general concensus here is that you cannot build a 200hp A series with parts from a scrap bin as you propose - get real.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

given the components they have axel ,and the high octane fuel ,where we tend to design for low octane stuff ,im certain can make a 200 plus engine ,,the t3 the ic the fuel inj ,can all do it ,its the head cam manifold combination that wont be found in a parts bin ,that may let them down ,but hey ,wev all been there and i think itll be great to se the results .(the cocky arrogance and charm vacuum cant be cured by a parts bin either though ,and im not sure if that can be modified ! )

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

For a minute I thought you had flipped - LOL

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

I was merely asking about your experience on the torque plate. You state that it is crucial.

Well, it isn't. There you have it, advice given

Edited by ppj_racing on 21st May, 2007.

My personal opinion is that if you are going for a cross flow head the mechanical injection system you are proposing to use is far from the ideal system to use to realise the power you require.

Just going to have one last attempt Re VE

Let's say we're talking about a 1380 then.

On another thread (can't find it just now)
someone queried my statement that when
the boost gauge shows "0" i.e. no vac, and no
boost, then 100% VE is reached

See pic below

So, whoever it was, with the gauge showing
as in the pic, what's the % VE then?

And what is it when, boost increases & the gauge needle
sits on 0 ?


So, with a blown 1380 and 100% VE
what output can you realistically expect?

Then, what output can you expect
by boosting to 15 psi gauge i.e. 1 bar?

If Alec Poole got 180 bhp in 1969
from a Copper S 1275 bored to 1298
with no intercooler ! ..
much more must be achievable
40 years later, with better heads
pistons, Napier rings, turbos
and chargecoolers and much better
stuff in the scrap bins and parts bins

Attachments:

14.99kb

Edited by ppj_racing on 21st May, 2007.

Right ... time to concede a couple of things ...
{time for Axel to smile ..but ..}
.. well, one for starters ..
may have to sleeve down to 1380 or even less
to get Base CR down low enough to run the
the degree of boost that we would like.

Talking of liking, we like ERA Turbo Minis
now that we've got some ace gen from
owners .. and we especially like the look
of Rob Cave's immaculate example
For Sale (prob now SOLD) on PistonHeads

Nice!!:):):):)

Word-is that the T3 should be OK and
we can play with A/R, different housings
and turbines (t.t. Essex Turbos)

and our ex-Lotus Carlton intercooler
should be fine.

Our Kugelfischer mech inj system
is better than blowing through a carb
or two, though perhaps not as
tweakable as EFi but the latter's not
a route we want to take with this
project.

We're waiting to hear what outputs
some of these Hi-boosting guys
are getting from 1293 and 1380

200+ has been mentioned already
and that's what we were originally
looking-at .. a good fun figure.

Mahle pistons
Carillo rods
Hi boost MED-head
Coupla extra head bolts
Attention to the crank ...
and all round cooling ,,,
helped by a nice dose of MeOH
in the tank

Attachments:

31.3kb

Edited by ppj_racing on 21st May, 2007.

You're starting to listen! (except about the MFi - we'll keep working on that)

If you want to know how to get 200hp, work it out for yourself. There is a simple calculator here:



The maths is all one the Garrett site:

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Do some reading up and you'll get the general jist of what is required for a 200bhp motor, however I don't think any of the guys that have one will tell you all their trade secrets so to speak, they have all put in a lot of hard work time and effort, so understandably they are cagey about giving stuff away.

The only thing to add to Tom's comment is that it took each of them several years to develop the engine to generate the power and the clutch and box to handle it.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

There is a VAST difference between friendly and helpful, and expecting people to hand over their HARD EARNED and often COSTLY development secrets/ideas etc.

If you do your research you will find a wealth of information on this site, more than any other on the subject in question I will say with good certainty.

WTF?

Edited by Paul S on 21st May, 2007.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

sigged! :)

This site has proved again and again to be very help full to people when specific quiestions are asked. Unfortunately if you come on here and ask for all the answers that have already been answered many times you will not get a good response. All the basic answers to your questions are here and follow the general advice and an easy 180bhp engine can be built. If you already know engines then taked the knowledge of the people here and add your general engineering skill/experiance/knowledge and you will be able to go the extra mile and get 200+.

I think the fact that you came on here with the silly idea that turbos had no downside and superchargers just sucked power, and still stand by it makes people a bit weary of your actual credentials.

I remember when stevieturbo came on here in a very similar vein. Now he has proved to be a valuable member of the site.

Please don't be put off by this thread. We really will help you. The fact that it has been said that we think your idea needs some development should be enough. If you already thought all your ideas were great then why come here at all?

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