supercharged metro
Turbo Mini Forums

hi

i owen a metro which i race in northern sports /saloon car championship ,for next year i intend to supercharge the engine with a vmax supercharger kit runing a 8 0.1 cr and around 12psi im hoping for about 160bhp out of my full race 1380 .

does any one have any experience with the vmax kit
and
i intend to use the cam which is fitted a the moment which is a 300 race cam power 4500 to 7300 will this work with the supercharger or is it to radical

stick vmax or supercharger in the search box, i'll turn up more than most people can remember off hand.

also look for user stuart gurr-vmax scart (or somthing like that) he posts occasionally on here.

Welcome Andy,

Thought forced induction wasn't the route to go

Fingers crossed (very crossed!!) i'm hoping to join a few rounds next year with the miglia. Its all up and running now, just some more tweaks and its ready.

Alright Andy,

We spoke about the cam choice months ago, a bit too much on the hot side.

A milder cam with more attention paid on the cam timing side woulod be a good idea.

You know the legs my car has!

JF.

i'm no expert ,but if its to be used on circuits where speeds are maintained at high levels, not as much benefit is to be had as opposed to if it was going on the hills, where speeds can drop off dramatically,
the blower would need to be run at engine speed to get any kind of top end benefit,
and most certainly intercooled.
i've only seen one other supercharged competition mini , it was a 998 and on the hills,
but bloody quick!!!!, over 10 years back though now,

carl

Edited by fastcarl on 6th Sep, 2006.

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

so in theory a turbo would be better as they provide better top end than a charger which is more suited to all round power delivery?

On a race circuit speeds are high and revs are unlikely to drop below, say, 4000rpm; so you will always have boost with a turbo.

On a hillclimb you regularly find yourself in much slower corners, we grab 1st a lot to keep the revs up.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

yeah thats what i was getting at wil

i understood a charger would give more top end than a turbo . the more you rev the engine the more boost a charger produces?? iain never said forced induction wasnt the way to go its the lag you will get with a turbo i think you will struggle with thats why i fancy a suck throu charger so ill get instant throttle response

It is a shame that the first thing anybody says when you have a turbo is 'What is the lag like?' Would not a super charger be better. People's idea of a turbo motor is stuck in the 80's with cars like the early Saab 900 Turbo and even early sierra cosworth. The lag was bad. But when was the last time you drove a modern turbo like a scooby and complained about throttle response?

SCs have their place and in a road car they can be great, but mainly because on cruise you can de-clutch the SC. If you want power on the track fit a modern turbo, you won't be dissapointed.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

my toughts are the same as Ben H & Mini 1071s

also i would like to quote Donald Rumsfeld on this on as well!

Below

BenH has got it in one to be honest, these days a low-inertia properly-sized turbo will give plenty of torque and power from around the 2000rpm mark.

My dad has an old Audi Quattro turbo, massive turbo lag (Autocar once did an article that proved that in top gear accelerating from 30 to 50mph a 1.0L VW Polo was faster than the Audi) and then a huge boot up the arse when the power comes in.

20-odd years later, the Audi TT which makes 225bhp as opposed to the 220bhp of the early Audi Quattro, does so with very little turbo lag (which IMO makes it much more boring to drive).

However this helps illustrate the way turbo use has developed over the years.

its fact that a turbo car will need 30% more power than a NA car to acheive the same lap times so lag or pick up must come in to play some were

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

Did that fact come from one of Steve Wrights factoids, known throughout the world a an endless fountain of knowledge?

Like Wil says, we have data to prove this 'fact' totally wrong. In comparable cars with comparible power we have comparible lap time.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

i know andy, just pulling your leg

But in honesty turbo's will do the biz. when i get up and running your more than welcome to come out in it and i'll show you what the lags like.

forgot to say on the track i'm aiming for 14psi as my std setting. from the looks of things its good for around 150bhp @ flywheel and bucket loads of torque. thats with a phase 2 turbo cam & 1.5 rockers. 1293cc

iain what final drive will you be running and what revs will your max power be produced

i dont know where peak torque will be produced just yet. i've also got too low an FD in at the mo but i didnt have time to change it. currently a 3.9 but i have a 3.1 ready to go in.

I'd expect peak torque to be around 4.5-5k with the limiter set at 7.5k as the bottom end is fairly light.

What sort of top speeds do you see in general andy?

As it is i can see a lot of time on the limiter if i left it as was.

Need to get back in the garage and then back to the rollers. Time is a problem though!!!

Edited by iain on 8th Sep, 2006.

iain if you can pull 7,500 in top with a 3.9 diff and you have 490 tyres you will be doning 111 mph i personal run 4.1 and pull no more than 7,700 in top so my top speed on 20" tyres is 111mph .if i was you id lift the rev limit to 8k this will give you a top speed of 122 mph .if the cars ready bring it to the last race of the season at croft in two weeks

wil h
a 1 litre engine with a turbo is the equivilent of a 1.7 N/A given the 1.7 rule most motorsport class use so you have to use a 825cc motor to get into the 1400cc class
and ive never seen a 1380 make 140bhp the best ive seen is 98bhp at the wheels about 122/3 at the flyhweel thats with scatter cams the best heads polestar managment and a 48IDA weber and as far as i no the metro still holds the hill record for a 1400cc car at harewood hillclimb so must be one of the best 1380s about

I've heard the " a turbo needs 30% more power" quote before,

I think but am not sure that it dates from the era of the of the RS1600i and series 1 RS turbo, suposedly the 1600i was quicker around a track due to the absence of turbo lag,

sounds like toss to me, if your giving it stick round a track you shouldn't really come of boost.

maybe there was some truth to it 20 years ago....

its the 1.4 equivilent.surely.
your metro holds the record for mod prod saloons[up to 1400cc] because it had a very brave driver, lots of cash thrown at it and a trip to terrapin services for the final touches,anything it needed it got throughout the season,including 2k in data logging back in 1996.
I can't take away the fact it was a very rapid piece of kit though , quite annoying sometimes really,
carl


plus the fact it was origionally built be a person who had an idea of what was needed ,

carl

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

Yep it is a 1.4 multiplier not a 1.7 hence a 998 turbo, its all there in the blue book. There maybe some class specific rules making a series a 1.7 multiplier though.

If you have not seen a 1380 with more than 120bananas, then you are not looking hard enough. There are plenty of 5 porters running much more than that and 7 and 8 ports have seen 160+bananas.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.