16v turbo 'A' series
Turbo Mini Forums

anyone turbo'd any type of 16v 'A' series ?

am planning turbo on KAD engined hillclimb morris minor
have no experience of turbo installations but am gathering info.

all steel motor , 86mm crank ,carillo rods, KAD race head
doing new A+ block at +20 [advised current 73.5 will give too
much bore flex]
havn't decided on pistons [read something about the JE deep
dish pistons coming up short in the bore ?! ]


carl talbot

jimster has a turbo 16v motor, but uses a k1100 head not a KAD one.

I've seen the future and tbh its Pie

carl, if you are using the large valve head , i thought it was it a must you use 73.5mm bore or the valves would foul on the bores,i may be wrong but i dont think so,
scruffy will be along soon to let us know,
this is something i fancied doing but if the motors going to all out of boost at 7k its no good to me lol.


carl

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

what sort of power are you looking at with a 16v turbo a series then?

josh

My build thread..

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=542985

theres a few 1380 turbo' son here aswell IIRC that have put on plenty of miles, kinda puts the bore flex myth to bed imho.

turbo 16v k-series 11.9@118.9 :)

Denis O'Brien.

Thinking about it I wonder if the special casting has gone to the Talbots? I understood the reason it was never used as to turbo as well for this race would not have been cricket!

On 5th Sep, 2011 Vegard said:
I stand corrected. You should know

just a thought, minispares now do some 73mm pistons, extra bit of wall thickness to be had maybe.

thanks for the info chaps .
some of the language i don't get [as i said i'm new to this computing , still searching for letters on the keyboard]
whats this : lol ; IIrc ; imho ?

no it's not any fancy KAD turbo head
just good old n.a. race head ; if we go for +20 then would relieve block for valve clearance . will prob be low boost high revving ? so maybe larger bore will be ok . Havn't got pistons yet and block
is std and cheapest part of build . looking for 230-250 bhp to start with ; nothing too silly !

LOL = Laugh Out Loud

IMHO = In My Honest Opinion

HTH = Hope That Helps

IIRC = If I Remember Correctly


Back onto the subject of the engines, I will just throw into the pot to think about compression ratio, I do not know how the KAD head fares for meat in the casting around the combustion chambers to mill the head, so this may dictate your choice of piston and overbore to get the Compression ratio you desire with the cylinder head volume you can achieve.

good point tom, i was going to ask scruffy what the standard chamber cc is ,i dont suppose its much different between the two versions,maybe a cc or so,


carl

Edited by fastcarl on 22nd Oct, 2006.

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

Ok, forgive me for being a mong here but I thought the idea with a 16V head was that you had a lot extra flow. So, taking that on board, you can either use shorter cams to get the same result higher up and have greater capture/efficiency and pull the power curve downwards. So, the question is, having this huge valve and port area, are you going to trap the charge or blast it straight out of the zorst? I've got a mate building a 16V (BMW) mini with a blower/turbo. It's all over the garage at the minute and we've been looking at the cams involved and it's a bit of a funny one. Not wanting to get too involved, we have 2 choices off the shelf, the 288 and the 300 inlet and exhaust cams. My idea was to run a LT inlet 288 and an RS exhaust 300. The snag is that with that setup, when it is trapping enough gas, the crank will probably shit itself. So with the KAD heads, you're looking at having the big valves and ports for starters, even though the density is higher, you're going to be looking at low velocity at off boost which it may not like. Then you're looking at what cams to specify, you're going to need them made specially. I'd suggest off the top of my head something similar to the PH2 264/288. One of the things I'd worry about is the big ports/big valves coupled with off boost slackness. Assuming you're going to run mega boost with a low compression. My ethos is big capacity, high CR and low boost with a low rev limit. My mate is going for high boost and in order to get his T3 doing its thing, he's giving it a blast with a blower which the idea being to have the M45 geared up for mega boost and then as soon as the turbo comes on line, the dP across the blower is reduced to zero and the 20hp or so taken to drive it. I've had a load of Morris Minors, most with silly engines and there's plenty of space in there for a blower. But if you're doing that, you may as well get a Mazda Millenia lysholm blower (ebay $200 US) to do the job, they are longer than the M45 but a better blower. I suppose with that setup you could get away with a really short inlet duration with a lot of lift.

Just out of curiousity what gearbox and axle are you using? Mine used to eat halfshafts, even competition ones! Had a 55 splitscreen which would wheelspin on a dry road in 3rd

Personally, I would have thought a small valve head was a better proposition for a turbo......

Anyway, tell us how you got on.

Stu

Bugger off, I'm getting there.

Excuse me for putting in my moneys worth about the K head, but, i was under the impression that the LT cams were around 260 and the RS cams around 280.

The person that knows is John_K.

^^^^^ sprox is correct. Your info is dud Stu.

I'm in the same situation with the 7 port head,

I really fancied building a big motor and running less boost to get a nice drivable motor, but with only 24cc in the head the limit ends up being what compression ratio you can run with a given size.

I think someone said the bimmer chambers were around 28cc so assuming that being 16v the KAD head should be a similar size hopefully that wont be a problem for you.

Also, yes there was someone with some short JE pistons from minispeed, this would be a good option for you if your going to be running an 86mm stroke. I'm pretty sure they were so short even with the 86 mm stroke you'd still ned to take a mm or two off the top of the block. better than topping the piston though.

assuming (a lot of assumtions here!)

bore=73.5mm
chamber= 28cc
dish=18cc
stroke=86mm
gasket=2.8cc
zero deck height

CR= 8.4:1

heres the short je piston thread.

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=8589

Edited by Joe C on 22nd Oct, 2006.

KAD use a flat top piston with valve cuts, so sticking in an 13cc dish piston should help A LOT.

The head chambers of the KAD 16v are very large to start

havn't measured cc's in head . engine still in one piece as it came out of midget. spent money-got engine with crank rods bvhead so thats wots got to work [some how] . suggested new generation t25 turbo cos spins up quick with loads of anti lag on management
[hillclimber]
g.box is ford [quaife dog ] from crashed rs500 . axle is ford [english] with billet
1/2 shafts , both should be good for close on 500bhp !

In that case I would suggest running milder cams, leaving compression ratio relatively high, and use low boost pressure to boost your torque output......

Edited by Sprocket on 22nd Oct, 2006.

Interesting about the cam durations. I've read another article which says different. Will the real BMW durations please stand up! 260 sounds more plausible to me, for a 16V engine anyway. Hmmmmm.

Back to the turbo 16V. It sounds like an awfully expensive way of making a morris minor go fast, since you've changed the box and axle, it's hardly original may as well bung something else in there. Have you seen the turbo Morris Minor (last months PPC) on the hillclimb circuit...looks like something granny drives with 320hp.
Having played with Morrises for years, the last one being a very exciting car indeed, the first thing I'd do is throw a proper engine in it. Also with a Morris Minor, I'd be interested how you're going to keep this attatched to the tarmac Mine really needed a bootful of lead......

All good fun. Go fot it, I personally would sell the head on ebay and laugh as an idiot pays far too much and go and get something like a 16V red top and apply a lot of boost to it. Those bottom ends are good for about 600hp IIRC.

Stu

Bugger off, I'm getting there.

thanks again for all the ideas/info
much for the little grey cell to ponder

havn't worked out how to reply to individual peoples info so will once again just stick it all down as one stream of blahh to all :
can't do photo's they're all prints from early '90s and havn't worked out how the bloody scanner works .[colin at KAD has one on office wall and was threatening to scan some pics onto their site , give him a prompt ?!]
It wasn't the motor on e-bay, much better deal and better spec. [why would anyone build an inline 'A' series into an 's' block beats me ?!]

who said anything about 500 bhp 'A' series [someone asked about the drive train , what it was and how robust, do I detect a little envy from from mr fragile g.box !? ] I mentioned 230-250 bhp


The car has evolved over many years since 1988 , starting out with 5 port and triumph pistons [ which left their tops behind in the bores , something to do with 13.5 comp ] we had one of KAD's first heads and did lots of on track testing as works sponsored hillclimb outfit. All the drive train went into lotus 7 chassis [with works supported engine on alpha management] in mid 1990's we won british champ. for 1400cc mod prod . 7 sold as road car with 5 port . hence have ended up with our old moggy shell all the great drive train to go back in,
another bargain all steel KAD motor to go with our great hillclimb engine ,
a childhood dream to have fire spitting turbo moggy [think group B rally ]

et voila , here we are !!!


ps. basic summation of mod prod hillclimb regs : shell unaltered between axle centre lines , same suspension system , same engine block [hence 'A' series, but love the quirky little thing to bits [hopefully not litterally] and wouldn't want any other motor ]

what about KAD road cams for turbo
KAD2 : lift .360 . 264 deg duration
more lift ?

we use L14 on n/a : .415 lift . 280 duration , maybe us these ?

Edited by Sprocket on 23rd Oct, 2006.

'cos the box cost £150 [ mainshaft bent
like banana , trued up with press and lathe, 1st motion shaft had all dogs broken off , ran 3 speed for one season,
needed 4th for isle of man , part of tt course , awesome , new 1st motion from quaife £150 bargain !

BMW LT cams are 256° and 8.8mm ish of lift -measured on cam machine, RS cams are 284° and 9.8mm ish of lift - the ones in my engine are over 300° inlet/exh and over 10mm lift - specials!

hope this clears that up!

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

KAD 2 was what I used in my first engine and would probably be the best bet. All the others L14 & L1/BD3 need high compression to make them work so would probably make a really laggy/cammy engine in a turbo application

On 5th Sep, 2011 Vegard said:
I stand corrected. You should know