turbos and high revs
Turbo Mini Forums

ive asked this one before but didn't really get anywhere near the scratching the surface as i'd have liked to,

obviously most know the history of my car ,and if i'm stuck with the gearing i have i need up to 9000 rpm,

if i were to turbo i'd like to think i could make somewhere near the 200 plus the gas.

to put the road speed verses engine speeds into perspective, as it is now on a good run i can hit 103mph in the 1/8th ,this is 7000rpm in top, so as you can se i need a lot more revs to carry my on to the line,

i'll assume its got alot to do with boost, and the need to keep producing it throughout the entire usable rev range the engines capable of .
am i right ??.
and seing as a t2 appears to be out of puff at near 7k whats my way around this,lets assume there may be 16 valves in this equation.
,i;m not too worried about lag as this can be eliminated ,
thoughts!!!
carl

Edited by fastcarl on 30th Oct, 2006.

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should work well with the gas carl, as you know this will eliminate all lag. As long as the turbo is big enough 9000rpm will not be a problem,

Team Racing

In simple terms, a small turbo e.g. T2 will run out of puff higher up but will also come on boost earlier. A larger turbo such as the Escort RS Turbo spec T3 will come on boost later but also can flow enough air to carry on to higher revs. So as a start point I would say you need to be looking at a T3 turbo with a compressor A/R larger than that of the Escort (0.36).

This page

http://www.turbofast.com.au/balmid.html

gives an idea of the different turbos that can be obtained.

Carl - are you stuck with the gearing you have or would it be better to rely on the huge torque/spread from the 16v + turbo/squirt? maybe run through the gates in 3rd rather than 4th with a taller fd? - if you pm me your tyre rolling radius + width I'll have some clever chappies run the data through prediction software for you to see what would make more sense lots of revs or rely on the torque.

John

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

key thing is not to get a lot of ex back pressure due to the nitrous making a lot more gas to get out of the engine , i think id go for something like a gt2252 60 trim ,with a big a/r turbine on it ,something in the .6 to .8 range ,ill see if i can find one off a stocker for you to seek out thatll be on a t25 flange though .
regards robert

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

And then you could have one huge drain pipe exhaust Carl, just like the Tractor-pullers.

sorry, don't know much about your mini
could you tell me more about capacity and flow?
9000 rpm with high ve doesn't need much boost to work well, and 200 can "easily" be sorted at these revs.
I would not looking at garrett T range of turbo, later turbos are beating these in all aspects of turbocharging, efficiency, inertia, flow, pressure..
a gt2052ls from rover 75 turbo or mitsu twin scroll from late renault 2.0 turbo f4r would do a great jobn, as an ihi rhf5 which is ball bearing -from hyundai 2.8 turbo diesel, or sub vf 37 (which is also twin scroll).
I would be worry to build an high boost 9000 rpm screamer, because it need a long cam and a low cr (the worst possible),

nissan bd30-ti 3 litre 4 cyl diesel has one with a .67 housing might be damn good for you carl ,ive no idea what one of those is though ,prob a big van !
robert


vehicle spec and part nos .

M100 vehicle
BD-30 Tiengine
3000 capacity
4L cyl
108 power
1996year

GT2252 turbo model
452187-0001turbo p/n
14411-59T00mnissan p/n

Edited by robert on 30th Oct, 2006.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

ah its off a nissan trade or cabstar , and it was the same p/n in 98 on until i dont know when .

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

What about running the cam timing more advanced,I think thats what mr Flan does

Metro turbo weekend driver,Mini turbo in the making again!

When I briefly tried a regular Kent 286 cam in mine years ago, while it destroyed the car below 3000rpm, it did extend my useable power band to beyond 8000rpm with ease.
As it was a standard bottom end, I didnt venture there often, and only kept that cam for about 3-4 days.

I was using a T3, 0.36 turbine housing, with a 4wd Sierra Cosworth compressor running about 1.5 bar ( on 7.5:1CR )
With a sensible cam, full boost is achieved below 4000rpm, but its very torquey even off boost, so it isnt as bad as it sounds. The SW5 gave me an easy 7500rpm in every gear.
So a hotter cam, should give an easy high rpm limit.

But as others say, these Garretts are old fashioned crap now.

Buy a modern GT unit, or a Mitsi/IHI turbo.

And 103mph in the 1/8 is bloody movin !!!!!!

Edited by stevieturbo on 30th Oct, 2006.

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

hi carl ring turbo teqnics and tell them whta you are looking for and they will build you one to suit. but i recon to rev that high you may looking towards a t4 inlet size trim buty i may be wrong.

but give them a call

always looking for them bigger bunches of bannanas

A mate of a mate was involved with British Vita and was buggering about with a magnusson roots blower and a weslake head, that used a 649 cam made 180hp. That was that funny sprint car. Looking in the old tech books, it seems that with early turbo efforts, the 649 was quite a popular choice. Again, Bill who used to work at Abingdon and his chums made an 850cc mini have 100hp at the wheels using a sprint cam and the blower off a Frazer Nash. That was for a bet one when one of the staff said his highly tuned mini would waste anything. He lost a lot of money :)

The question is, what is the limiting factor on turbo engine revs? Gas inertia. How do you reduce it? Simple! but having cam overlap will blowby at low rpm. I seriously looked at putting a ph3 cam on my blower engine and then realised the bottom end would probably shit itself. :)

Edited by Hedgemonkey on 31st Oct, 2006.

Bugger off, I'm getting there.

i agree you will need a more radiacl cam and a bigger ported head so the engine can rev that high but also need a lot bigger blowere as a two smaller one wont be able to produce the cfm the engine requires at a pre determined boost pressure.

always looking for them bigger bunches of bannanas

Wouldnt a twin turbo Rx7 be a good place to start looking?

thinking of the fact it should have a similar flow and rev limit?

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

how much power will the metro manifold flow for?

this flange business is irrelavent , i'll be making manifolds.
so stevie, what are those two units off production wise or will they be hybrid types,

remember i need two matching.

how much wonga do these types cost new,
carl

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Did you get the email i sent Carl?

yes dave i did ,but just tonoght , putas been in for fixing,i'll have a ponder your thoughts and get back to you, cheers,


carl

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

Havent a notion what the GT22 etc are used on lol.

I guess you are looking to sourced used, rather than buy a new unit ??

Speak to Andy Nichols at AET Turbos, Im sure he could sort you with something.

The price he gave me for a GT22 was well under £400 ( not sure if there was a core surcharge on that or not )

Another I am thinking about is a TD04-16T, think they are used on some Volvos.

I know some of the Starlet guys use a regular Subaru TD04, which is slightly smaller than the above ( I think )

You will be able to buy one of them off ebay etc for buttons. Robust units, dont often give trouble.


But If you are going down the route of FI, then seeking rpm's isnt necessarily the best way to go fast....just creating more power is a better one.. With power, short gearing like you already have, forced induction isnt always best.

IMO, you might be better aiming for a taller diff, and the turbo. With very short gearing, and a relatively large turbo, lag/spool can be an issue, and if you can make big power at lower rpm's, engine longeivity will also be better, than using crazy rpm's

Edited by stevieturbo on 3rd Nov, 2006.

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

Ive got a VNT22 ready for my new engine -





This site is very good for information -

http://www.dieselevante.it/

Its got all the vehicles that turbos are available on.

J

Excelent link!!

I need to look at geting a VNT shortly so i can doa down pipe for the inverted metty manifold.

Whats that one off by the way?

Edited by Joe C on 2nd Nov, 2006.

mine GT22 is from a renault mascott, it'll do between 130bhp and 240bhp i think. Ive got to work out the best way to attack the downpipe on it, its a V-band flange, but i cant find out what size it is? I think i may just get a V-band setup and weld a new known flange to the current one.

The V-band makes for a nice tidy installation, and also no stuck bolts!

Im working on how to control the VNT bit, i think i may run a normal pressure actuator instead of the vacuum one on there. Its a bit backward but it should work.

J

Sorry for hijacking the thread!

I may look into one of those, as you say the V band will make a tidy install.

on the control side have you seen this site? there's some interesting boost control stuff where the vanes cycle each time the throttle closes to help with carbon build up.

http://www.thedodgegarage.com/turbo_vnt.html

Also some of the new vnt's have a electronic actuator, perhaps this could be controlled with megasquirt.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RENAULT-ESPACE-3-0-d...tem190046428769

I think V bands are quoted on pipe size, i'd guess that one's 2.5"

Edited by Joe C on 2nd Nov, 2006.