much power!possible?
Turbo Mini Forums

Hi

Some of you may remember that myself and Vegard (aka Sickboy) talked about a mini here in Norway that used a motec ECU.

Anyway, I just heard from the guys, and appearantly they have just had in on the rollers, and made 228 bananas and 336 Nm of Curly wurlies. that equals 250 footpounds...

I dont know full spec at the moment, but last time I saw it he used a lot of VAG parts incl turbo. Intercooler where from an S3 IIRC.

This is with a 5 port head.

This guy is not much into the mini enviroment here in Norway, so very few of us miniguys ever meet him. But he makes powerfull cars for a living (incl mapping, i guess that may be the reason why he chose motec).
Among other built a audi A4 (1.8T engine) with around 600 bananas... So they know their stuff.

But isnt that a LOT of torque?

Yes, that is a lot of torque... Unless he dyno'd it in 3rd of course!!!

He probably uses Motec as he's familiar with, and like it - especially if he can swing the injection event around.

I have dynoed my car both in 4th and in 3rd on the same rollers as he used, and it was no difference...So it shouldnt matter on these rollers I think. But I do understand your point.

Edited by miniminor63 on 18th Dec, 2006.

strictly speaking gear shouldnt matter too much....

Although 4th should read higher due to less losses.

I know Motec can do injection timing, as can a lot of ecu's....not sure if it can do individual injection timing changes though.

WIth that much torque, you havce to ask......what clutch, and what gearbox ??

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

Yes, what clutch is the guy running? He's running 8X13" wheels AFAICR.

Also, the rollers he went to are rather strict, not the Minisport type

Dave..Motec, does that work? Anyone are so very into th is 5-port injection stuff saying it doesn't work, does this? I know it's expensive, but if the cars can be made to work with this?....

he is running some very wide 12" at the moment I think

welll Motec is Australian produced you see

I like my dyno better than anyone elses tho,,, mine gives out power readings like--

> "Nah, that`s crap, go fix all this wrong stuff & come back later"

& > " hey that`s not bad for a stock std mini, nice"

& > Now we`re talking, that`s a nice big bore"

& "Ok, now we have mumbo Yay!!!"

& this is the one i like > "Holy shit batman, this thing cranks!!!"

Now that`s my dyno & it`s located just under my back bone but just a tad behind my balls

& i`d have to say that the torque will be higher in 3rd as opposed to 4th gear, just the same as the torque in first gear is greater than in 2nd etc,,, that`s the point of having gears sorry, just muckin around i`ll shut up now

www.miniman.com.au

"""LazyGoodForNothingSmartArseKnowItAllBackYardMiniMechanic"""

Shouldnt matter what gear. The dyno should be able to sort that out, as it knows what rpm's are being used ( at the dyno ) and what torque is being created.

So end result should be the same.

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

yes that is what I mean too.

On 19th of Dec, 2006 at 12:48pm MadMatt said:
welll Motec is Australian produced you see

I like my dyno better than anyone elses tho,,, mine gives out power readings like--

> "Nah, that`s crap, go fix all this wrong stuff & come back later"

& > " hey that`s not bad for a stock std mini, nice"

& > Now we`re talking, that`s a nice big bore"

& "Ok, now we have mumbo Yay!!!"

& this is the one i like > "Holy shit batman, this thing cranks!!!"

Now that`s my dyno & it`s located just under my back bone but just a tad behind my balls

& i`d have to say that the torque will be higher in 3rd as opposed to 4th gear, just the same as the torque in first gear is greater than in 2nd etc,,, that`s the point of having gears sorry, just muckin around i`ll shut up now

I know , i know im sorry , it just makes me grin !!!

Intercooled 1293 cc Turbo +
March 06,4psi and counting .
Its now gone up to 8psi.
Nov 06,10psi +.
And now part of the Airbourne club.

Queensland,,, ---> beautifull one day...--> perfect the next,,, then pissing down rain

My seat breaks all the time

www.miniman.com.au

"""LazyGoodForNothingSmartArseKnowItAllBackYardMiniMechanic"""

Okay, got a little more info here. The car is owned by a guy working for a tuning company here. I talked to the owner of the company last time (who built the car), and talked to the owner of the car himself today. He did not want to stand behind the numbers given above as they where from rollers seldom calibrated (mostly used for mapping only).

He gave me some specs though

- uprated RS2 turbo! (KKK H07 I think the type was)
- switched to autronic ECU
- normal SCCR box and LSD
- custom made driveshafts..., the reason was he liked a more responsive and not a twisty driveshafts.
- phase 3 cam
- avonbars highest spec turbo head

Inlet of his own design ( 4 pipes towards the head, Y piece very close to inlet port that merges the two pipes into one). one injector in each pipe (4 injectors in total). He fires the injector closest to the rad to cylinder two and the one next to it to cylinder one. (interesting aproach).

Doing it this way meant that he had no obvious troubles with charge steal appearantly...

He is running 1.8 bars of boost!

Edited by miniminor63 on 21st Dec, 2006.

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

Well, the power and boost sound correct at least!!!

The firing at the valve is interesting, but not the whole answer - is the autronic fully sequential, or semi sequential? I'm guessing it IS from the description and the system actually working with this layout.

Charge stealling is far from conclusive with the word 'apparantly' added however! It could be his inner cylinders are running at 12:1 and the outers at 13:1 for example...

Still - fair play to him - someone else that has it running, no doubt through lots of R&D and heavy investment.

Edited by turbodave16v on 21st Dec, 2006.

he has done some testing on cylinder mixture, and he is going to take the engine out and put it on a dyno with facilities for EGT at each cylinder for example. Then he will get the real ansere... Will post if I hear how it goes

The EGT will be pretty inconclusive - as the middle branch will always run hotter than the outers; no matter what you do.

One EGT sensor is needed to inform of impending doom, but individual sensors are a waste of coinage.

I know, but he where going to do other tests too... but point being what I think is interesting about this is that these guys arent really into minis, but they know their stuff when it comes to tuning... They have a bit different aproach to what we are used too, so I find it interested to see how it works. And it looks to be working pretty okay at the moment.

I asked this on another thread....and I'll ask again.

Dave you ask if the Autronic is fully sequential ??
Im pretty sure it is, certainly on a 4 cylidner and 6 cyl anyway, as are dozens of ecu's

Are you guys with efi minis, trying to run them as a batch fire system, and not using sequential ????

I ask, for what i mentioned above. The obvious way to run any engine, is sequential injection, firing at the valve, as most manufacterers do.

So arent any of the current Mini guys doing this ?? It seems apparent they arent firing at the valve, due to awkward injector positioning. But is no-body ( DOZ and this guy aside ) running proper sequential injection ??

If not...why not ??

Has it been tried and there are further problems with this approach ?

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

Sequential isn't enough for the 5 porter ... you need to be able to stagger the timing across each cylinder irregularly to get around the charge robbing. You will need to change this staggered timing as the revs increase I guess.

Or go for 4 inlet ports ....

Edited by RogerM on 23rd Dec, 2006.

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

On 23rd of Dec, 2006 at 01:52pm RogerM said:


Or go for 4 inlet ports ....

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

Or semi -sequential with seperate firing angles. Also brings back the question of how with something like 150-crank degrees of clear, non charge-stealed, realistically open valve do you actually get enough fuel into the engine and still have enough for huge power?

Edited by turbodave16v on 23rd Dec, 2006.

Anyone for a direct injection A-series lol

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

Time for MS2 and the special code ... might be quicker to go 4 inlets though.

Cetainly will be easier to get set up ..

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

7 port would be the easy option...

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

yes, Autronic is fully sequential, we run 2 of them in the litre sprint speedway cars,,, Motec & Autronic people actually used to be partners in crime & split up,,,then made the 2 sperate companies, & yes both good Aussie made stuff

www.miniman.com.au

"""LazyGoodForNothingSmartArseKnowItAllBackYardMiniMechanic"""