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Home > Technical Chat > Solid Copper Head Gaskets

danboy

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Doncaster, South Yorkshire

A Friend who I have done work for in the past has just bought a £35k. CNC router for his plastics fabrication company. Despite a £1k training course he is still struggling to get the best out of it, fortunatley I can help him and have access to the machine.
I had thought that a few head gaskets would be a good exercise to "test" the Machine.
The two things that sprang to mind were 11 stud 998 gaskets and dry deck 998 and 1275/ 1380 gaskets.
Has anyone got CAD files for 998 and 1275 gaskets? It will save me some time and as payment a gasket could come your way.
Any positive help and advice will be gratefully recieved, please don't tell me I am wasting my time and to use a 450 as I am doing it anyway for my engines.
Would anyone like to comment on using a solid copper gasket, with no waterways, as a means of Dry decking and saving the hassle of plugging the block / head.
Regards
dave


Joe C

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Carlos Fandango

Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex

Perhaps K1100 to A series gaskets?

On 28th Aug, 2011 Kean said:
At the risk of being sigged...

Joe, do you have a photo of your tool?



http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...9064&lastpost=1

https://joe1977.imgbb.com/



danboy

715 Posts
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Doncaster, South Yorkshire

What do people use now for the K1100 to A series?
Regards
Dave


Joe C

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Carlos Fandango

Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex

thats a thought, I guess SC have that covered...

http://www.specialist-components.co.uk/cnb...odCategoryID=15

Perhaps some copper manifold gaskets might be worth a try?

On 28th Aug, 2011 Kean said:
At the risk of being sigged...

Joe, do you have a photo of your tool?



http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...9064&lastpost=1

https://joe1977.imgbb.com/



Jason G

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Braintree, Essex

If someone sends me a gasket..I'll draw it up, problably as a dxf file which your coding software should handle danboy

On 19th Jan, 2010 wil_h said:
I would start the furthest place from the finish.


On 24th Mar, 2012 apbellamy said:
I feel all special knowing that I've given your mum my wood.


Been neglecting Turbo'd 'A' series..............


danboy

715 Posts
Member #: 1381
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Doncaster, South Yorkshire

Bpop, Might take you up on that, but I seem to recall someone saying they had dxf files so I am hoping and waiting to see if someone will help.
Many thanks for you kind offer.
Regards
Dave


turbodave16v
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I did have - but don't have access to the pc they are on... *frown*

On 17th Nov, 2014 Tom Fenton said:
Sorry to say My Herpes are no better


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johnK

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Norfolk

We do use solid copper gaskets for the K conversion, complete with the stainless fire ring compression piece. They work really well but you do have to take care with preperation of the gasket before you use it and the block face and head face need to be fresh. I haven't heard of anyone having problems if the yprep everything properly, ie annealing the gasket corectly, polishing it afterwards etc.

have fun

JK

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it would probably be like this one!


RogerM

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Cheltenham, Gloucestershire

Dry decking purely via a gasket may cause issues over life, may not .... will be a leap of faith to find out.

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

On 27th of Sep, 2007 at 12:45pm Jimster said:

why do you you think I got a girlfriend with small hands?


danboy

715 Posts
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Doncaster, South Yorkshire

Roger Can you explain. If the gasket fails where can the water go other than external or waterway to waterway.
The oilway will be "O" ringed of course.
Regards
dave


RogerM

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I like nice quiet girly Minis

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On 11th of Apr, 2007 at 08:50pm danboy said:
Roger Can you explain. If the gasket fails where can the water go other than external or waterway to waterway.
The oilway will be "O" ringed of course.
Regards
dave


That's not quite the same as just using the gasket and should be ok. The only problem is that will make it a one way street, once the block is spotfaced for the o-rings it'll by a pain to go back to a normal gasket if the copper one doen't work out for whatever reason.

I take it you'll be using a separate fire rings around the cylinders?


There are plenty of applications where a solid copper gasket is the best way, just not convinced yet the A series is one of them. More than happy to be proved wrong on this and good on you for trying it.

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

On 27th of Sep, 2007 at 12:45pm Jimster said:

why do you you think I got a girlfriend with small hands?


Jason G

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Copper is abit pricey too...problably easier to get a local laser firm to cut a sheet of them

On 19th Jan, 2010 wil_h said:
I would start the furthest place from the finish.


On 24th Mar, 2012 apbellamy said:
I feel all special knowing that I've given your mum my wood.


Been neglecting Turbo'd 'A' series..............


fastcarl

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Fastest A Series Mini in the World

leeds/wakefield.




On 12th of Apr, 2007 at 07:08pm butterpoppy said:
Copper is abit pricey too...problably easier to get a local laser firm to cut a sheet of them


what kind of statement is that????

So Danboy can count you out then !!!!!!!!!!!,



carl


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Jason G

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lol fastcarl.....polycarbonate windows could be a good earner for danboy. I'm sure he could do plastics *wink*

Edited by Jason G on 12th Apr, 2007.

On 19th Jan, 2010 wil_h said:
I would start the furthest place from the finish.


On 24th Mar, 2012 apbellamy said:
I feel all special knowing that I've given your mum my wood.


Been neglecting Turbo'd 'A' series..............


Sprocket

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Preston On The Brook

The problem with lazer cutting is that it hardens the cut edge causing hardness of the Copper to vary over the cut peice, even after anealing. Best way to cut is water jet, or CNC mill and a router, for intent in purpose is a mill of sorts. That way the hardness is the same across the peice.

The cost of CNC machining is not the material, its the set up of the machine. This cost rapidly falls if the number of pieces increases, as its just a matter of feeding the machine with raw material.

Good thing about the Specialist Components gasket is that it is known to work, is made by a reputable source, and includes a patented Wills ring that is also known to work

It is my beleif that with this type of gasket, to get the best from it, some sort of a thin film of sealing compound should be used to safegaurd against fluid leakages, i doubt you would ever have an issue with cylinder blow by. Hylomar spray or if you can find it, Copper Kote spray, appears to be the thing to use. I supose you could use Weld Seal if you could apply it thinly and evenly.

There are special procedures to torque down these gaskets and wont work properly on engines not specificaly built with them in mind.

I know of an engine builder that uses a plain anealed Copper head gaskets on Astom Martin engines, and there is two of them on those engines. Thats a big thumbs up for me.

On 26th Oct, 2004 TurboDave16v said:
Is it A-Series only? I think it should be...
So when some joey comes on here about how his 16v turbo vauxhall is great compared to ours, he can be given the 'bird'...


On 26th Oct, 2004 Tom Fenton said:
Yep I agree with TD........


Sprocket

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Preston On The Brook




On 12th of Apr, 2007 at 07:19am RogerM said:



On 11th of Apr, 2007 at 08:50pm danboy said:
Roger Can you explain. If the gasket fails where can the water go other than external or waterway to waterway.
The oilway will be "O" ringed of course.
Regards
dave


That's not quite the same as just using the gasket and should be ok. The only problem is that will make it a one way street, once the block is spotfaced for the o-rings it'll by a pain to go back to a normal gasket if the copper one doen't work out for whatever reason.

I take it you'll be using a separate fire rings around the cylinders?


There are plenty of applications where a solid copper gasket is the best way, just not convinced yet the A series is one of them. More than happy to be proved wrong on this and good on you for trying it.


I think Danboy is talking about a neoprene 'o'ring inset into the gasket, rather than 'ringing' the block*wink* :thumsup:

On 26th Oct, 2004 TurboDave16v said:
Is it A-Series only? I think it should be...
So when some joey comes on here about how his 16v turbo vauxhall is great compared to ours, he can be given the 'bird'...


On 26th Oct, 2004 Tom Fenton said:
Yep I agree with TD........


Jason G

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Braintree, Essex

Got turret punches where I work...could to be a better method....but nibbling of the cylinder holes can take some time...speaking engineering...not perverted here!

Edited by Jason G on 12th Apr, 2007.

On 19th Jan, 2010 wil_h said:
I would start the furthest place from the finish.


On 24th Mar, 2012 apbellamy said:
I feel all special knowing that I've given your mum my wood.


Been neglecting Turbo'd 'A' series..............


danboy

715 Posts
Member #: 1381
Post Whore

Doncaster, South Yorkshire

Is it a wills ring that SC use?
From the research I have done I think I will go with a Stainless Thin shim to increase the clamping around the fire ring. Probably 4 - 5 thou thick.
Regarding thin film sealing compound, I have ideas but no testing to back them up as yet.
I take it no one has files for the 998 gasket so i will get cracking.
Regards
Dave


Jason G

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Braintree, Essex

With wired gaskets....is there machining involved with the block? like a cossy setup?

On 19th Jan, 2010 wil_h said:
I would start the furthest place from the finish.


On 24th Mar, 2012 apbellamy said:
I feel all special knowing that I've given your mum my wood.


Been neglecting Turbo'd 'A' series..............


danboy

715 Posts
Member #: 1381
Post Whore

Doncaster, South Yorkshire

YUP
Regards
Dave


mini23

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Milford Haven Pembrokeshire

Whats the chances of making a copper gasket thick enough that it would work on its own to lower compression for turbo and supercharged engines?


Jimster
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Sunny Bridgend, South Wales

I'd be suprised if you can find anyone to guy copper with a laser. The mirrors inside the laser cutting machine are made from copper. If you try to cut copper, you usually end up burning everything else in the building!!!

Water jet cutting maybe...

Team Racing

On 15th May, 2009 TurboDave said:

I think the welsh one has it right!


1st to provide running proof
of turbo twinkie in a car and first to
run a 1/4 in one!!

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fastcarl

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Fastest A Series Mini in the World

leeds/wakefield.




On 14th of Apr, 2007 at 12:27am Jimster said:
I'd be suprised if you can find anyone to guy copper with a laser. The mirrors inside the laser cutting machine are made from copper. If you try to cut copper, you usually end up burning everything else in the building!!!

Water jet cutting maybe...


and waterjet leaves a small radius on the top,
so milling it is then, OH fuck Danboys already thought of that ,lol.

good man,


carl

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE


Jason G

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Never knew that Jimster...learn something new everyday. Never seen a laser, ment to be quite impressive bit of kit.
lol carl

On 19th Jan, 2010 wil_h said:
I would start the furthest place from the finish.


On 24th Mar, 2012 apbellamy said:
I feel all special knowing that I've given your mum my wood.


Been neglecting Turbo'd 'A' series..............

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