Will this work ok?
Turbo Mini Forums

Hi chaps just after your opinions and advice if possible.
I have a Vmax supercharged 1275 MPI which is using the emerald M3d k ecu with an Innovate wideband lambda.

History of problem:
I had a few problems with high temps and poor running and gave the engine a check over and found that cylinder 1 had considerably lower compression than the other 3 which were all at 150psi.

What ive done:
The first thing i did of course was to get hold of Stu at vmax and he went through a few things with me and we think that piston on cylinder 1 is damaged and possibly pinching the rings. Anyways i pulled the engine out and the block has been sent for a +20 rebore at morspeed. Im going to be using Omega forged 18cc dish pistons and am having the crank hardened and the conrods balanced and fitted with ARP bolts. Whilst i was at morspeed Simon told me that it would be possible to up the boost from the M45 charger by using a smaller pulley and he thinks that my engine would happily take 18psi of boost which could produce up to 180bhp utilising the already fitted sw5i cam and lightened duplex vernier timing gear. After going through this with Stu and posting on a couple of other forums ive found out that the its pointless going past about 10psi on the eaton m45 charger as it just heats the intake charge up without producing any power gains. Stu also said that he can mod the bypass in my charger so as that it will run slightly more boost on the original pulley anyway.

What i need to know:

Will all this work ok...... 10psi with a compression ratio of 8:1?

Also does anybody know the best way to run this type of engine in? Dave at Emerald has said he can produce me a running in map for the ecu.

Also, i want to tidy a few things up whilst the engines out like the fuel and oil cooler lines. Can i fit braided fuel hoses and if so what size is best to use on an mpi setup?

Thanks for any help/info

Edited by AlexB on 4th Apr, 2008.

8:1 CR is pretty low, I reckon it'll be good for a fair bit more than 10 PSI, to be fair you might want to raise the CR up a bit.

Steve aka Benross posted some very good running in info a while back, a quick search should find it.

and lightened duplex vernier timing gear. After going through this with Stu and posting on a couple of other forums ive found out that the its pointless going past about 10psi on the eaton m45 charger as it just heats the intake charge up without producing any power gains. Stu also said that he can mod the bypass in my charger so as that it will run slightly more boost on the original pulley anyway.

andy , if you have a look at this map from eaton , you can see the boost will run to around 15,to 16 psi ,and can still be in the 55 to 65 % range ,so if your in the base line air flow for your bhp ,it should be ok ,at the higher boosts .

the bini runs 12 stock i think ? and the smaller pulley gives it 4 psi more so thats 16 psi
this is a standard sort of mod for these ,and makes about 210 to 220 bhp . i know of a bini m45 running up to 300 bhp on a m45 ,,but normal max without a lot of cooling mods is around 250 odd .
regards
robert

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

actually just looking at that map i see its a 5th gen one , is the bini a 5th gen ?... goes and finds out ......
no its not , the bini one is a 4th gen , so take that map with a pinch of salt .

Edited by robert on 4th Apr, 2008.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Andy500 here is the link RobH was refering to .... http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

its born out by my experience and many peeps i have talked to over many years

there is a map in this link.

http://www.mini2.com/forum/engine-drivetra...ifications.html

Hi guys, thanks for the replys so far and thanks to Benross for that running in data, thats excellent.

Im very new to the forced induction game and didnt even know about things such as compressor efficiency until last week! How do i read those graphs. Im using the standard mpi pulley and a standard bini pulley on the charger, so dont know what that equates to in terms of revolutions and pressures etc.
I just seem to be getting confused!!! Can anyone help and explain things more. sorry for being a dumb ass.
Cheers

Robert, its not the efficiency of the compressor, its the inlet charge temps that are the problem. The VMax set up doesnt have much in the way of charge/ Intercooling.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Cheers for that robert, so how do i work out the airflow in to my engine? I aint got a clue!

a nasty way is to say 150 cfm per 100 bhp .
have a look on the garrett turbo site andy ,,they have a good tutorial for beginners .
254 m3/hr i think .equals 150 cfm .

Edited by robert on 4th Apr, 2008.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Using this

http://not2fast.com/turbo/glossary/turbo_calc.shtml

I find it difficult to get 180bhp when using a BSFC for a normaliy aspirated engine with 85% VE at 6800rpm with a 20% intercooler efficiency (cooling effect of the wet manifold(speculative)) 15psi boost and 55% compressor efficiency And optimum AFR of 12.5:1

Compressor discharge temps of 115 - 139c

All this giving an estimate of 161bhp with an air consumption of 202cfm (343 M3/h)

I would say that this figure is reasonably accurate as when you drop the boost to 8 psi and increase the compressor efficiency to 65% it gives bang on 140bhp, which Vmax quote. With discharge temps of 70 - 80c

An intercooler is your friend, which is going to be difficult with a wet set up.

Edited by Sprocket on 4th Apr, 2008.

Hi chaps, and hi sprocket i think i met you last year at the finity rr day at minisport.

Ive learnt a hell of a lot in the last hour, especially from reading the garret web site as suggested. Following the calcs on there and using a few guesstimated figures i reckon that i will need approx 15psi at the inlet in order to get 150bhp from a 1293. and it will consume 197.37 cfm of air/fuel mixture.

Now all i need to do is work out a suitable compression ratio and what the effect of 15psi will be on intake temps.

<3 that engine run in guide deffinatly how i am doing mine// did my dads car :)

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