KKK Twin scroll turbo
Turbo Mini Forums

This looks interesting:



175 hp, with a twin scroll on the turbine.

Anyone know what that the black box on the compressor housing does?

Edited by Paul S on 21st May, 2008.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

A quick search on the web says the black box is an integral dump valve (recirculating, obviously).

Very neat.....

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

I was thinking dump valve.

who's going to buy one then!

Edited by Paul S on 21st May, 2008.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Ah yes, I see the shaft now!

indeed must be a stepper or solenoid for the vane.

Edited by Joe C on 21st May, 2008.

The picture is confusing, the shaft is the wastegate rod although in one picture it looks like it comes from the black box.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Quite possible, a lot of the newer turbos with guide vane control on the turbine (instead of a wastegate) use stepper motor control now.

As it's on the compressor, it could be designed to achieve the same as a dump valve (prevent compressor from stalling) and alter compressor characteristics as you say, by opening a gate or moving guide vanes.

Buy it and pull it apart !!!

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

There is a Press release on Borg Warner's own website that says certain newer versions of the K03 and K04 have integral "blow-off" valves, so I'm back to my first theory, integral dump valve, BUT, possibly operated by the EMS rather than a simple vacuum line, hence the electrical connector....

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Boost control on this engine must be complicatted to get 240lbft from 1600 to 5000rpm.

My vote is for variable difuser technology

Edited by Sprocket on 21st May, 2008.

The theory of the twin scroll turbine housing is that you can achieve higher peak gas velocities by seperating out the exhaust pulses.

If we fed one tract from the middle exhaust port and the other from the outer ports, then the peak nozzle velocity would be twice as high. This would bring boost in lower down.

Edited by Paul S on 21st May, 2008.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Yes, but you need to control it more at the higher RPMs, otherwise boost would run away.

Variable diffusers change the compressor characteristics, much like the variable vane change the turbine characteristics

We use variable diffusers on our larger machines so they can operate at lower capacities. They work in a manor that literaly changes the flow capacity of the compressor wheel, almost as if the wheel was smaller itself.

black box is the dump valve, its electroniclally operated. iv fitted a few blanking kits/ kits to converto them so they dump externally.

turbo 16v k-series 11.9@118.9 :)

Denis O'Brien.

Variable diffuser:



A quick trawl of the net shows that the OEMs are looking into this.

However, until they become mainstream we are not going to be using them.

You could use a twin scroll turbine with a diverter valve that would send all the exhaust gas through a single scroll at low flows and then through both scrolls as the flow increased. This would increase the nozzle velocity and wheel speed which would bring boost in early. Probably easier to start with a VNT turbo.

This is how we used to increase the part load efficiency of steam turbines. Nozzles were arranged in groups, each fed through an independant control valve.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

No arguement about the black box - dump valve it is.

I just think this turbo may be worth considering for the A-Series.

Anyone know if it is a KO3 or KO4?

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

they can produce more than 175hp as the new 207 rc will have 217 hp with the same turbo jsut more boost, they are ok not very big. i have had to change quite a few oil feeds to these turbo's recently and they are a pain to change lol. if i work on another at work ill take some pictures of it and how its setup on the 207 (same engine as the bini cooper direct injection ect)

Drives
-Ford S-max Mk2 Ecoboost
-Rover 100 VVC #2 - track project

Searching is all you need on TurboMinis

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

looking at the rod from that black box to the turbine , i wonder if it allready had a valve shutting off one side of the turbine ?

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

So has anybody seen any maps for these turbos? How do they compare to the popular GT17?

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

as said above the black box is an integrated recirculating dump valve (electronically controlled).
one area that may make things abit trickier though is that the existing actuator is controlled using vacuum (from vacuum pump) similar to diesel VNT turbos instead of pressure, although it would be simple enough to put a more traditional actuator on.

From this thread it seem that someone has calculated that it is a similar size to the GT2052-1, if you look at the comp map for this (below) it looks like a good map (for high powerd 998 use anyway).

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

On 22nd May, 2008 wil_h said:
From this thread it seem that someone has calculated that it is a similar size to the GT2052-1, if you look at the comp map for this (below) it looks like a good map (for high powerd 998 use anyway).

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

On 22nd May, 2008 robert said:

On 21st May, 2008 Paul S said:
The theory of the twin scroll turbine housing is that you can achieve higher peak gas velocities by seperating out the exhaust pulses.

If we fed one tract from the middle exhaust port and the other from the outer ports, then the peak nozzle velocity would be twice as high. This would bring boost in lower down.

not if youv halved the flow by dividing the ports paul ?

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

i feel the average port velocity and density reduction may play a sufficiently negating role here to ofset the benefits ,so it would not compare with a true valved scroll. but improve a few 100 rpm on an open non split scroll.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM