28cc head
Turbo Mini Forums

How much boost will be safe then with a 28cc head and Intercooler ???
Running standard Pistons ?




the words


"out your stick neck" come to mind

Edited by b12 on 3rd Aug, 2004.

TurboLessTosser

I've know of people to run 18psi on stock pistons... I'm sure others will say the same.
Naturally you'll be getting it tuned up???

Of course young man !!
I will get it tuned up properly this time though :)

TurboLessTosser

Take it the person using stock pistons you know of is stu dave?

I was impressed with his car. and the onsite work they managed to do!!

Edited by iain on 3rd Aug, 2004.

bodge it one has always had stock pistons in and often saw 20 psi and when i took the head off they were perfect.

Everyone knows that instructions only have to be read if the thing doesn't work....

Not just Stu, but a few others...

std psitons loook like a good design, so its not surprising they can handle the power!

alex

AlexF

For reliability we would only run the standard pistons on 1 bar of boost and this would be using a turbo management ignition control unit using a pressure sensor in the plenum If all the mods are done correctly 14 psi is approx 150+bhp !!! all you have to dio then is use a traction control system so you can put the power down !!!!!!

http://www.avonbar.com

Avonbar Racing Please explain what is meant by turbo management ignition control unit using a pressure sensor in the plenum

TurboLessTosser

traction control???

That works?

Name an aftermarket manufacturer that has cracked it that will work well here!

alex

AlexF

Suspension geometry is more important to traction!! Cant say i can think of any good traction control systems either!!

I think Avonbar may mean mappable electronic ignition. You have a pressure sensor so that the ecu can adjust the timing to take into account the level of boost present. Alsdo means you can still have good timing for around town of boost driving. Really i'd suggest everybody has one, they are not hugely expensive and so much better than a dizzy. Or maybe they are talking about controling the waste gate actuator through the ecu (or seperate control unit). These have solenoid valves in them. The waste gate stays shut untill the required pressure is reached then the valve pulsates at a frequency that allows pressure into the actuator to open it and blled of the surplus exhaust gas.

Interesting comments on pistons.

Why can a "standard" piston only be used upto 1 bar??? Standard what ???? what is a standard piston ? the comment dosen't really make sense. What is standard in one application can be well non standard in another engine. What is the limiting factor on the "standard pistons"?????

Can anyone tell me on what basis they decide pistons suitability ? Some aftermarket pistons that you are buying start of life as Standard items that are modified a bit.

I can think of several race ECU builders who have systems that would offer traction control that would work for us. They do it like F1 by cutting the spark/fuel. The spark is cut to each cylinder in turn. If the ECU needs to loose quite a bit of power then it will cut more sparks, if its only a little it may be one cylinder that misses every 4 revs. In a carb set up you may have to fire the spark late (well after top dead centre) or not at all. The result of this would be flames from the cars backside !!!! Problem is these systems aint cheep.

std pistion AE 20813 ??

Alex

Edited by AlexF2003 on 5th Aug, 2004.

AlexF

"not hugely expensive"???
For most people, ?800 odd IS expensive - even acounting for the gains!!!

I've never got the E48 'launch' control to work on my mini, and a mate has had problems with the P8Pro traction control on his...
Or are you talking about a more specialised system???

I do agree with you though... I'd never bother building a medium/high performance turbo without proprtional boost retard at the very least!

Best place for the pressure sensor has to be the manifold though!

20831?

So hijacking slightly, I was looking at a Boost Retarder unit from (I think) Microdynamics in the Tweeks catalogue, however, I tried to contact Tweeks, they had no details of the function of the unit, and the email they gave me for Microdynamics didn't yield a response.

So

1) Has anyone used this box of tricks
2) How does it work to retard the ignition on boost?
3) Does it use a MAP/Boost sensor to know when to retard?
4) Is it any good?

I was thinking that it would be better to use an OMEX or similar mappable ignition system complete with a late MPI mini type coil pack, and a MAP sensor, to allow you to properly adjust the ignition timing whilst sensing boost?

Any comments please guys? Is anyone running this or something similar?

Several guys run Emaerald systems...

I will later on in the year as well.

alex

AlexF

1) No (thankfully)
2) It retards it by 'delaying' the signal from the dizzy to the coil
3) No. It uses an adjustable pressure switch, and retards by a certain amount at the point the switch is activated. It is not proportional, and uses very simple, almost clockwork, electronics. EDIT - I'm not so sure it even has the pressure switch - i think this is an option!
4) I'd sooner buy a sunstrip, undercar neons, and a bass tube.

Edited by turbodave16v on 5th Aug, 2004.

A ha. Sounds like a bag of sh1te to me then.......

I won't bother with that then will save up for an OMEX or Emerald. But will get it running with std distributor setup to begin with.

Does anyone run an injected turbo mini? Or is the SU useable and easy to set up that it isn't worth bothering with the hassle of trying to inject and map a siamesed inlet head with forced ind?

do a search tom theres plenty on here about that subject!

BACK TO THE TOPIC

alex

AlexF

As Alex says!
Do a search for 'siamese' or 'injection' !!!

oh, stay away from Omex (or let me re-phrase that to minispeed)! Find a local RR you trust, ask what system they favour, and buy that!

You can liken them to something like microwaves - they all do the same basic thing, but have different bells& whistles, and ways of making them work, but they ALL do the same job in the end, but will still only do what they are told! Hence the end result is only as good as the instalation and the information inserted from the RR guy!!!

I agree with dave on several comments.

I wouldn't bother wasting time or money on traction control.

If your gonna spend any money on your ignition, then spend wisely on a 3d mappable system. These aint to expensive, for this use they are good value !!!

MAP sensor has to go in manifold.

"Stu"...if we are talking about Mr wright then he does run standard piston..BUT..Machined out to give a bigger dish..How do i know??..I saw them at Avon when he had his head off.

He gets a mention in this month minimag in the LTB run bit, says the same thing.

depends how efficient the intercooler is, i have run 14 psi on a standard engine- (ok with bp8es plugs and a bca needle and timing set to 25.@5000rpm)with a vectra turbo diesel intercooler plastic ended job , it was before having a rolling road but it didn't pink and must have had 130 bhp