Pre-verto question
Turbo Mini Forums

I am trying to disassemble a pre-verto clutch…there are 3 jack bolts that go through the diaphragm and into the flywheel, so that you can slowly release the spring pressure. Does anyone know what thread size that is? It is not 3/8”-16…I am thinking it is 3/8”-24 but just want to confirm because I will have to order that, nobody carries fine threaded rod locally…Thanks

Whoaaa.

The threaded holes in the flywheel (accessed through the diaphragm) are for the puller for pulling the flywheel off.

To release the pressure on the plate, you just need to undo the three bolts on the three corners of the cover/diapragm... slowly and evenly.

Post a photo in case we have different "language" for the bits.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

I apologize in advance about posting copyrighted material but I did not know any other way to communicate what I am talking about. I will take it down if it is a problem….



I am trying to make this tool… I wasn’t sure if the bolts on the corners had enough thread to completely relieve the spring pressure…the last thing I would want to do is take my head off.

that looks like a puller to me =/

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Thats a picture of the method to dissassemble the ye olde spring type clutch.

You wont have one of those, what book are you using, it must be the 59 to 69 book

Edited by Sprocket on 11th Aug, 2008.

That picture does not make any sense at all.....

It's all wrong !!!!

I'll go photo a real one later this evening (UK evening !!!)

Rod.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

The picture is right, just not for the clutches that are available any more, they went out of fashion with the kipper tie

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Right, here is a pic of a normal PRE-verto cover, first from the inside with a diaphragm spring.

Then from the outside, with only 3 (inner) holes. These holes line up with the flywheel puller threaded holes.

In your borrowed picture of the VERY early one you will see SIX inner holes or dowels, this is because there used to be six coil springs behind them instead of the diaphragm spring, the holes were 3 each of location dowels and flywheel puller.

If you really have such an old one that it has coil springs, yes, ideally you should use studding and nuts to compress the coils springs BEFORE you release the three bolts on the outside of the triangle.
If it's a normal diagphram cover, just slowly release the outer three bolts, the diaphragm spring has much less extension than the bolt length, the coil springs had much more extension.

If in doubt, post us a photo of your actual one....

Rod.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Just also remembered, if it really is that old to be the coil spring type, the primary gear ran on white metal bearings (not bronze bushes) so there was an extra drilling in the crank to feed those bearings with pressurised oil, and an extra oil seal in the back of the flywheel to keep that oil in, which didn't work, which is why (many, many years ago), I ended up dismantling one.... and throwing the whole thing away !!!

There surely can't be any around still....

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

My saga continues…it seems I have every potential odd ball part possible….apparently you guys are telling me I have the last existing spring type clutch. I am assuming that is a bad thing. My original plan was to open it up replace the clutch disc and ring gear and move on…but now you got me wondering what I should do with it. Please let me know…would you chuck this one and buy a new one? If so which one?

Edited by Sprocket on 11th Aug, 2008.

Id bin it and get a new one

Edited by Sprocket on 11th Aug, 2008.

Apparently I am here to prove that rocking horses do shit….in the form of a rusty spring clutch.

Thanks...I will start pricing new ones :)

Do you know if I can get away with reusing the pressure plate and flywheel and just replacing the diaphragm with one of these...

http://www.minispares.com/Product.aspx?pid=38003

to buy everything is some serious $$$$$

Edited by Mikes1098 on 12th Aug, 2008.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

BTW, back to your original question, the "jacking" studs use the flywheel puller threaded holes (so I'm 99% certain it's 3/8" UNF (24tpi)).

What I did on the one and only one I had to dismantle was to use the flywheel puller itself with a small piece of flat bar resting across the cover so the centre bolt of the puller was pressing on the bar and keeping the springs compressed. I was a poor penniless student at the time and had just spent a "fortune" on the puller so couldn't afford studding as well.....

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Rod you are helping me tremendously. I only have a few more questions and I wanted to post pictures for reference just in case someone else gets lucky too…

Crank has no extra drillings…


Flywheel has a metal lip just before the taper…can’t really tell if a rubber seal was in there at one time or if they simply relied on tight clearances to the primary gear…hoping you would recognize the features on the flywheel…


The primary gear has small holes drilled around the circumference right next to the gear teeth. I presume this allows oil to enter into the bushings of the gear, is this not how a “modern” primary gear is? The bushings appear to be bronze and there was absolutely no play when slid onto the crank.


If this is the old crappy primary gear can I swap it with a newer one instead of machining the flywheel?

I think you are right about the flywheel having the recesses in it…I will see if I can find another one.

Again, I greatly appreciate the info Rod!

You don't have a problem with that primary gear, it is the bronze bushed one. The little holes are (I think) to let any oil out that might have run along from the No3 main bearing so that no significant amount gets to the end of the primary gear where the clutch is. Anyway, they are perfectly standard on the bronze bushed ones.

I did a bit of research and it looks like the problematical whitemetal one went very early in production but the coil spring clutch survived a bit longer. I was just unlucky enough in my youth to have owned one of the whitemetal ones and as soon as I saw your coil spring clutch, I remembered all my problems with it.

Of course every bit of your engine may be a different age anyway - in the photo, the condition of the engine looks a lot better than the flywheel !!!

If you are sourcing a secondhand flywheel (pre-verto but diapragm spring), two things to bear in mind....

1 - The first generation were in two parts, flywheel bolted to the central boss with six bolts, later ones were one piece.

2 - There are two different weights, the 1275 one had a big extra ring of metal around its back face behind the ring gear.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Is there any advantages/disadvantages to the two different types of 'later' pre-verto flywheel (ie two piece or one piece)?

i'd just buy a new ultra light flywheel, steel back plate, grey diaphram and ap bonded rally plate and be done with.

hang on, that is what i did!

also whilst your at it get the black crank shaft oil seal and not the orange one, the black ones are from the mpi minis and are more expensive, but there more expensive for a reason.

since your state side buying new may be easier and you can get all the bits from the supplier you mentioned earlier.

I think I may have to just buy new... I have not had too much luck with anyone offering up an extra one in the states. They are probably on every corner over there...My only hope would be if someone would be willing to stick one in the post for me

Thanks again Rod, you were most hopeful!

You could refurbish and try the coil spring flywheel/clutch first before spending lots on new parts....

From memory, they won't carry much torque and are unreliable at high RPM but it would get you mobile.

There's a bit missing from the one in your photo, the sort of triangular/circular bit that attaches on the three little studs for the release bearing to push against but I'm assuming you took that off earlier.

Yes, plenty over here but the cost of shipping to the States, and the hassle of setting it up, would put most people off wanting to sell.
However, it might be worth researching the shipping costs and posting in the "wanted" section once you know.

Rod.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???