16V Comments please
Turbo Mini Forums

We are doing a study on costs as to wether a copy of the BMW 16V head and box of bits that fits the 1275 A+ block without block mods would be the way forward The hassle of plugging/re-drilling of the block - - - surley you guys would want something that would drop straight on so say on a saturday morning 9am start by 1pm you could be in the pub with said new motor up and running??????

http://www.avonbar.com

wrong section?

Just a couple of points:

1. The studs on the exhaust side are on the line of the port, so you will need to re-route the exhaust port. Not good.

2. The pistons will still need relieving, so it's not a Saturday morning job.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Edited by Rod S on 23rd Sep, 2008.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

nice idea, but don't we already have this from KAD?

The main big plus for the BMW head is it's cost, I didn't use an off the shelf kit for mine so saved money.

Team Racing

Maybe we're talking about a block casting ready for the K-head?

its all going to come down to price. as jim points out the KAD head is there already, just the cost makes the K head worthwhile.

i think this is interesting

if its cheaper than the KAD but costs the same or is cheaper as fitting the k1100 inc a fitting kit then its worth it just for being hassle free

my opinion only of course

As I see it, if you get someone to prep the block it costs around £100 to £150.

You can currently buy a K1100 head from Motorworks for £350. Then that will need modding - say anothe £150.

You will still need all the ancilliaries and drive gears etc which ever option.

So unless the new Avonbar costs less than £650, then it's not worth it. In my opinion.

You've got to have the engine apart to relieve the pistons, plus if you want an engine to make the most of the K head it needs to be beefed up and balanced.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

i think it would be a good idead for a reasonably priced twin cam 16v head or a single cam 16v head (something abit diffrent). if you can make an afordable bolt on and go head i think people will be interested in it. but as the other paul said its probably not going to be wheeper than 700 pounds is it?

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I ve heard ian saying about this kit over the phone a while ago and its something i will deffinately be interested in if it goes ahead. I think its a superb idea because i really want to go down the k head route but dont wanna have to dissmantle my engine to have the block machined. Would love to see it go ahead. Go for it avonbar.

Some one bought the rights to the JKD head?

The amount of interest in the BMW K head proves that the market is there for a cheaper than KAD head head. If it as easy to fit as the KAD and nearer the K head price then you could be on to something.

If it fits a 998 even better!

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A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

so its a bespoke head, based on the bmw bike head but an almost direct bolt on?
as already said, there is a market there look at the bmw head as an example.

how i understand the kad head, it is designed form the ground up to be an 8 port mini head, but look at the price!!
if you could achieve the same results (because lets face it its going to be more like a kad 8port than a k1100 head?) and under cut the kad price to be in shouting range of the (complete) bmw conversion price..

if you could do that you will be onto a winner, however i dont think kad would like it :)

just my opinion obviously...

Yes i moved to the darkside

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Even an 8 port 8v head would be good.

I think the money would be better spent casting up some fancy 1 piece wheels. BMW heads on the cheap + work are a reality allready and about the cheapest in terms of price x work. Most people would rather do more work than pay a bit more.

That's what I think.

Notice that steel 4.5" s wheels are in production again, as are AEG163 heads. Cooper S blocks next? Certainly more simple to cast up than a 16V head.

Bugger off, I'm getting there.

I have to say, blocks is a good idea, if not now but in the not to distant future.

id agree that a drop on head would be sellable .

the pistons dont need machining if the valve angle is shallow and 12cc pistons in there amd the lift is kept down ..

the complications of pulleys etc ,and drains , i would have thought would make it hard to make a profitable product with the other 4 valve heads around so cheap , but a niche where it undercuts kad substantially and comes in at what the bmw head conversion tends to end up costing ,say 2k, is a place where id think it would sell , although for it to sell in quantities sufficient to offeset initial outlay i think would be unlikely economic situation as it is .

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

I'll again say I'd sooner see some blocks... These can have the holes drilled wherever to suit a K-head or a regular head. Linered or as cast... It doesn't matter so much, but the person who does make a block will - I'm sure - do all right out of it.

I'm sure it would be possible to improve the castings considerably. Perhaps slimming down the 1/2" solid deck a bit. I don't think alloy is a good idea from a stiffness point of view. It would be doable to beef them up a bit and also lose some weight.

I reckon it might be an idea to produce some "ebay priced" rods which enable you to use some sensibly priced OE pistons. Eg BMW K 73mm.

The BMW head is a winner as far as flow is concerned, redesigning it may result in something inferior. No point redesigning the wheel.

As the dragons den people say and it's the true test of stuff "Is there a market for your stuff?"

There is a market for BMW shedders and a market for KAD millionaires. Either way, there aren't exactly hundreds of them in circulation. I don't realistically think the demand is there to justify the setup costs.

I would like some freshly cast JA Pearce wheels or KAD ones (mag) which were no more pricey than £130 a piece. Once you have the patterns, getting a foundry to bash them out is not a problem.

Years ago I was hellbent on casting my own head (weslake 8 port repro) and apart from getting the owner of such a bit excited, "that's mine sonny jim and if you look like copying it, watch what happens" semi-threatening email, I decided against it.

It's one hell of a lot of fucking about to get something which you could just pay a few more quid for. Also there isn't a demand for it. The bloke who has finally done this has got the facilities and it isn't such a big deal to bash a few out.

If I still have the email, the guy I bought my last set of JAP wheels from owned a foundry in the midlands and was well up for doing small runs of whatever and had the facilities for getting the things made.

I was thinking that if someone did cast a head, it would make sense to leave a lot of deck on it so that people could cut large chambers in, rather than starting off on the wrong foot.

Rosepetal wheels would be a good one. Vortz are ridiculous in their pricing. Try £130 a wheel again.

There are Chinese foundries who will copy any wheel..... if you have the sort of bucks behind you to put down a big enough order. I'd say 400 rosepetals, 200 6" JA Pearce wheels, 200 KAD wheels and 50 thick flange S blocks would be a very good start indeed.

If you price them right, you could clean right up.

I'm waiting for a 5 speed, direct 5th dogbox to turn up cheap. So far, we've seen cheaper billet cranks/H rods and it's only a matter of time before simple components like gears can be made. In fact, I have my suspicions that there are el cheapo drop gears turning up allready.

I don't imaging any of these sorts of things sell huge numbers but if you were to do the odd batch and knock them out cheap, it would be a winner.

All IMO

Bugger off, I'm getting there.

well,, i

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"""LazyGoodForNothingSmartArseKnowItAllBackYardMiniMechanic"""

well,, i

www.miniman.com.au

"""LazyGoodForNothingSmartArseKnowItAllBackYardMiniMechanic"""

well,, i

www.miniman.com.au

"""LazyGoodForNothingSmartArseKnowItAllBackYardMiniMechanic"""

wtf??

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