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Home > General Chat > My Turbo Engine Plans......what do you think?

dan_up

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380 Posts
Member #: 1835
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Thame, oxfordshire

as title, im going to start my slow winter turbo engine build soon as my mini is nearly finished, and after talking to matty yesterday i think im a bit closer to what i'll need to get a turbo engine im happy with, which is a "basic" engine with between, 100-150bhp and realiable..ish.
So my list so far is. (based on the metro turbo block and gearbox ive already got)

1275 bored to 1293.
12g940 head, chambers bored out 28cc, double springs
Bronze/standard valve guides, 1.3 ratio rockers.
Cross pin diff (mini spares), S/C drop gears.
Cast omega 10cc Pistons.
Kent 266 Cam.
Standard Metro turbo crank.
mirage manifold.
T2 turbo.
Powerflow turbo oil pump (mini spares job).
Steel Flywheel, Backplate.
Grey Diaphram.
AP Clutch.
intercooler.
turbo fuel pump.

Thanks to everyone for the great advice, this is very much appreciated and has finally given me a idea of what i'll need.
cheers
dan

Edited by dan_up on 7th Oct, 2008.

On 23rd Aug, 2010 Nic said:
Turbophil had a butt plug made that seemed to be suitable. He may have finished with it now and have it kicking around spare


robert

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uranus

dan , you dont need the turbo vlave guides ,just use stock or bronze ones .
from what iv read steer well away from morespeed it seems project suicide to go there when you can get it all from other companies ,but thats just from what ive read , i dont have any personal exp..
apart from that looks fine should get you what you want ,you could use a t3 and use a metty manifold and save a wad of cash ,but im guessing you want ot avoid cutting the bulkhead ?

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM


PaulH

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Dublin Ireland

IMO lose the SC drops put a 100 quid to there price and buy a Clubmas Mini Spares S/C gear set

On 17th Feb, 2009 Rob H said:

I find the easiest way is to super glue the bolt to the end of one of my fingers.

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dan_up

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380 Posts
Member #: 1835
Senior Member

Thame, oxfordshire




On 6th Oct, 2008 robert said:
dan , you dont need the turbo vlave guides ,just use stock or bronze ones .
from what iv read steer well away from morespeed it seems project suicide to go there when you can get it all from other companies ,but thats just from what ive read , i dont have any personal exp..
apart from that looks fine should get you what you want ,you could use a t3 and use a metty manifold and save a wad of cash ,but im guessing you want ot avoid cutting the bulkhead ?
cheers robert, yeah i want to use the t2 and mirage for 2 reasons, 1, being the bulkhead and 2. i understand t2's are better in the low revs and less lag? im not fussed about top end speed yet as its a first build, just need a decent start point. thanks for the info though mate.

On 23rd Aug, 2010 Nic said:
Turbophil had a butt plug made that seemed to be suitable. He may have finished with it now and have it kicking around spare


dan_up

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380 Posts
Member #: 1835
Senior Member

Thame, oxfordshire




On 6th Oct, 2008 PaulH said:
IMO lose the SC drops put a 100 quid to there price and buy a Clubmas Mini Spares S/C gear set
cheers mate, i'll have a look now.

On 23rd Aug, 2010 Nic said:
Turbophil had a butt plug made that seemed to be suitable. He may have finished with it now and have it kicking around spare


MarkGTT

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Shropshire.

I would use SC drops... dont think the standard ones will last too long at your aimed power.


dan_up

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380 Posts
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Thame, oxfordshire




On 6th Oct, 2008 MarkGTT said:
I would use SC drops... dont think the standard ones will last too long at your aimed power.
thanks mate, i think i'll go for the drops as its one weak point of the gearbox eliminated.
list revised *oh well*

On 23rd Aug, 2010 Nic said:
Turbophil had a butt plug made that seemed to be suitable. He may have finished with it now and have it kicking around spare


Turbo Phil

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My sister is so fit I won't show anyone her picture

Lake District

I'd be adding a steel flywheel, backplate, grey diaphragm & AP rally/race plate to your list. The Verto certainly wont be up to the job. :)

WWW.TURBO-MINI.COM


James_H

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Formally mini_majic

Auckland, New Zealand

without a little fiddling ala Robert anyway!


dan_up

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380 Posts
Member #: 1835
Senior Member

Thame, oxfordshire




On 6th Oct, 2008 Turbo Phil said:
I'd be adding a steel flywheel, backplate, grey diaphragm & AP rally/race plate to your list. The Verto certainly wont be up to the job. :)
ace, cheers for that phil, forgot all those parts!! lol.

On 23rd Aug, 2010 Nic said:
Turbophil had a butt plug made that seemed to be suitable. He may have finished with it now and have it kicking around spare


GaryOS

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Formally spanner181187

Dublin, Ireland

I assume you will be using a HIF44?
Will you be runing an intercooler?
What will you be doing fuel pump wise?

On 12th Nov, 2009 Paul S said:

I think Gary OS has taken over my role as the forum smart arse *happy*


On 30th Apr, 2010 Rod S said:
Gary's description is best


dan_up

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380 Posts
Member #: 1835
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Thame, oxfordshire




On 7th Oct, 2008 spanner181187 said:
I assume you will be using a HIF44?
Will you be runing an intercooler?
What will you be doing fuel pump wise?
i will indeed be using a HIF44, not sure on an intercooler, if it will be needed? and fuel pump wise, ive been told the gravity fed Bosch pumps are the ones to go for.
cheers
dan

On 23rd Aug, 2010 Nic said:
Turbophil had a butt plug made that seemed to be suitable. He may have finished with it now and have it kicking around spare


GaryOS

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1424 Posts
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Formally spanner181187

Dublin, Ireland

I would run an intercooler just for peace of mind if you want a reliable motor. It would help prolong head gasket life.
Bosch 0 580 464 070 is the metro turbo pump which most people use. I'll be doing the same

On 12th Nov, 2009 Paul S said:

I think Gary OS has taken over my role as the forum smart arse *happy*


On 30th Apr, 2010 Rod S said:
Gary's description is best


dan_up

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380 Posts
Member #: 1835
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Thame, oxfordshire




On 7th Oct, 2008 spanner181187 said:
I would run an intercooler just for peace of mind if you want a reliable motor. It would help prolong head gasket life.
Bosch 0 580 464 070 is the metro turbo pump which most people use. I'll be doing the same
cheers for the advise mate, better look for a small intercooler then!! *surprised*

On 23rd Aug, 2010 Nic said:
Turbophil had a butt plug made that seemed to be suitable. He may have finished with it now and have it kicking around spare


BENROSS

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9812 Posts
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Resident Cylinder Head Modifier

Mitsi Evo 7, 911, Cossie. & all the chavs ...... won no problem

a good intercooler pays mega divys, *Yes*
add that to your list and all the advice above is good

dont forget to machine 1.5mm of the clutch backplate off the 3 lugs as per ... turbodaves write up!

use the timking idler with the drop gears minispares north ask for richard
they will be in stock in 3 weeks ...................... also uprate the rockers to 1.3 ratios .....and

the power figures you are after go for the kent 266 cam .. in my book next best thing the normaly aspirated MG cam is a top cam, well regarded on here BUT..... my monies on the kent 266....

it will feel alot MORE drivable and pull its nut off for Road use and track days.

to TOP it off dont froget a well modded head this will place your power spread and torqure throughout some what 30% ++ more!

Edited by BENROSS on 7th Oct, 2008.






dan_up

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380 Posts
Member #: 1835
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Thame, oxfordshire

thanks steve, this is great advise, i'll do a search for turbodaves write up and i'll amend my list, at least now i can add up a average price to how much it'll cost me, then i can whore myself out to pay for it all!! lol.
thanks again.
dan


On 7th Oct, 2008 BENROSS said:
a good intercooler pays mega divys, *Yes*
add that to your list and all the advice above is good

dont forget to machine 1.5mm of the clutch backplate off the 3 lugs as per ... turbodaves write up!

use the timking idler with the drop gears minispares north ask for richard
they will be in stock in 3 weeks ...................... also uprate the rockers to 1.3 ratios .....and

the power figures you are after go for the kent 266 cam .. in my book next best thing the normaly aspirated MG cam is a top cam, well regarded on here BUT..... my monies on the kent 266....

it will feel alot MORE drivable and pull its nut off for Road use and track days.

to TOP it off dont froget a well modded head this will place your power spread and torqure throughout some what 30% ++ more!

On 23rd Aug, 2010 Nic said:
Turbophil had a butt plug made that seemed to be suitable. He may have finished with it now and have it kicking around spare


matty

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8297 Posts
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Turbo Love Palace Fool

Aylesbury

Bunch of amateurs...everyone has forgotten to mention the single most important thing for a powerful A series....

























To paint it Green! *hehe!* *wink*

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www.fusionfabs.co.uk



1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi


dan_up

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380 Posts
Member #: 1835
Senior Member

Thame, oxfordshire




On 7th Oct, 2008 matty said:
Bunch of amateurs...everyone has forgotten to mention the single most important thing for a powerful A series....

























To paint it Green! *hehe!* *wink*
nah it looks crap! *hehe!* *happy*

On 23rd Aug, 2010 Nic said:
Turbophil had a butt plug made that seemed to be suitable. He may have finished with it now and have it kicking around spare


Mr Joshua

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Luton Bedfordshire

Not gonna get far without a modified fuel tank.

Own the day


joeybaby83

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Isle of Man

lots of people happily use a t piece into the pump feed

"Turbo's make torque, and torque makes fun"

"did you know you can toast potato waffles?"



Mr Joshua

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Luton Bedfordshire




On 6th Oct, 2008 dan_up said:



On 6th Oct, 2008 MarkGTT said:
I would use SC drops... dont think the standard ones will last too long at your aimed power.
thanks mate, i think i'll go for the drops as its one weak point of the gearbox eliminated.
list revised *oh well*
How miss understood these things are. The reason for useing straight cut drop gears is to elliminate the side thrust you get from useing helical gears which when asked to deliver the suddend loads developed by turbo engines can cause excesive wear to the gearbox casing's.

You can transfer more power through helical gears than straight cut's due to the fact that there are always more than two teeth engaged at any one time. Simple engineering fact.

to transfer large amounts of power through gears double helical gears are used. these are monstrously expensive to produce so are not widely used in cars as the power produced does not warrent them.



Own the day


dan_up

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Member #: 1835
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Thame, oxfordshire

i'll be modding my old tank when i do the engine swap over.

As for the drops mr joshua...........whats your opinion? dont use S/C drops? or use them?

On 23rd Aug, 2010 Nic said:
Turbophil had a butt plug made that seemed to be suitable. He may have finished with it now and have it kicking around spare


matty

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Turbo Love Palace Fool

Aylesbury

But with helical gears you always get a shearing effect, and the axiel load will also cause more drag and you will lose more power than with a straight cut gear? Thats the way I understand it anyway?

The advantage of a helical gear is the contact area on each tooth is greater for the same width gear, so in theory should cope with more power as the load is spead over a greater area, but the sideways thrust seems to be the main issue. The other advantage is that they are quieter (if you count that as an advantage lol).

I'd say straight cut all the way!

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fusion-Fabri..._homepage_panel

www.fusionfabs.co.uk



1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi


dan_up

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380 Posts
Member #: 1835
Senior Member

Thame, oxfordshire




On 7th Oct, 2008 matty said:
But with helical gears you always get a shearing effect, and the axiel load will also cause more drag and you will lose more power than with a straight cut gear? Thats the way I understand it anyway?

The advantage of a helical gear is the contact area on each tooth is greater for the same width gear, so in theory should cope with more power as the load is spead over a greater area, but the sideways thrust seems to be the main issue. The other advantage is that they are quieter (if you count that as an advantage lol).

I'd say straight cut all the way!
i understood the last 7 words so thats what i'll do!! lol, but seriously, it was my understanding that the diff and drop gears were the main gearbox "weak" points on a high output or turbo engine?

On 23rd Aug, 2010 Nic said:
Turbophil had a butt plug made that seemed to be suitable. He may have finished with it now and have it kicking around spare


matty

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Turbo Love Palace Fool

Aylesbury

Lol. I had excessive wear on my primary drop gear thrust washer when I was running helical drop gears, but since moving to straight cut, almost bugger all wear. No doubt the teeth are up to the job just wipes out the thrust washer/bearing quicker on the gear.

As for diff yeah Minispares cross pin will do the job nicely! *wink*

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fusion-Fabri..._homepage_panel

www.fusionfabs.co.uk



1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

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