starter query
Turbo Mini Forums

hi i wonder if anyone can help me please i have a turbo metro engine the starter was inertia i think it had the wing solenoid and my mini was preengaged with the solenoid on starter i have been using the mini starter but it seems to jam up sometimes so ive fitted original metro starter with wing solenoid problem is when i start it starter continues to spin i have looked at previous threads and am sure ive wired correctly could my solenoid jam open and ive read rod s mention you can damage ignition do you think thats posibility with me using wrong starter any thoughts greatly appreciated hoping its just a wire or somthing

Take a deep breath.....

Which solenoid (wing or on top of the starter)

Which engine, specifically which type of clutch (Verto or pre-Verto)

This would help... some of your post just doesn't make sense, ie, Metro turbo with inertia starter.... not possible unless someone has mixed the wrong parts.

Tell us exactly what you had and now have - in short sentances - and maybe someone can help.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

the solenoid of the metro engine im using is wing mounted i have been using my mini starter and that has the solenoid on the starter but it works for a bit then is jamming up and i have to remove then replace then it works again for a bit i decided to put original metro one back on engine but starter continues to work after engine is started not sure how to tell difference with clutches but metro was cable mini hydrolic i just swapped gearbox arms over can you tell from this verto preverto?hope you can make sense of what ive said im new to minis thanks rod for all your help past and present your a gem

if its a metro turbo engine (presumably with original clutch) id say the odds are its pre-engaged (solenoid ontop of starter)

but on the off chance its not, here some pics of how the solenoid should be wired:

http://www.putfile.com/album/91084

as above, beware that the type of flywheel dictates the use of the type of starter

good luck

joe

"Turbo's make torque, and torque makes fun"

"did you know you can toast potato waffles?"

Right, this is very confusing so lets start from basics...

Verto or Pre-verto ??? The normal way of telling (without taking the cover off) is the length of the operating arm, long and hydraulic cylinder on top of housing for Pre-Verto and short with a cable on a Metro and a hydraulic cylinder much lower down on a plate for Minis and early Metros.

However, if you've been swapping arms around, this is no longer valid, AND you may now have an incompatible combination of clutch bits, never mind the starter !!!

It is important to know which because, as James and Joey both say, the number of teeth are different on each and that determines the type of starter. Even knowing the clutch type isn't guaranteed to answer the question though, because sometimes the "wrong" ringear will be fitted deliberately. My Pre-verto lightened flywheel/clutch assembly specifically has a Verto ring gear so I can use the pre-engaged starter, so what you need to actually know is the number of teeth.

Can you count the teeth ??? Take the starter motor out, mark one tooth and slowly turn the engine (plugs out, socket on pulley end).... Mark every 10 or you will lose count....

As for the starter to keep running, although I first thought "wiring", it's probably not... If you had got the big cable connected wrongly through the solenoid (easy to do if you're fitting an inertia instead of a pre-engaged) it would run ALL the time, not just carry on running after starting the engine...

More likely this - there is another incompatability between the wrong starter and flywheel and ringear combinations which SOMETIMES occurs. In one of the combinations, the small pinion on the starter does not come back far enough to let go of the flywheel, so when the engine starts, the starter motor doesn't carry on running electrically but is being driven by the engine. This can cause immense damage as the engine will be running the starter much faster than it was ever designed to cope with.

There are ways around this with a spacer plate but this would only ever be done if there was a specific reason for using the wrong combination (such as I described above).

So I'm afraid you need to determine which type of clutch/flywheel and specifically the number of teeth on the ringear you have.

Worst case, take the WOK (cover) off and the clutch is obvious, and you can count the teeth easily in case it's a deliberate mismatch. The shape of the teeth is also diferent which makes it obvious too.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

thanks will go count teeth on flywheel cog on starters does look slightly different but im trying to fit original one from turbo engine with solenoid maybe it had wrong one fitted when i got engine car starts purfect with mini starter no funny sounds or anything just occasional jamming hope my clutch arms are compatible they have same ball fitting on end and look as though they travel same distance i have drove car forwards and backwards few feet in garage clutch little stiffer than normal but working fine

Edited by Rod S on 1st Nov, 2008.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???