turbo challenge engine
Turbo Mini Forums

hi guys,just been offered one of these engines,reputed 255bhp?
anyone know the spec on these engines?cheers

Turbo phil knows more than anyone, having spoken with Phil Hepworth (Racespec) who built these engines...

255hp is a falacy.
Try more like 180/190.

If this is an old works spec Group A lump the best power seen was 204 but 192/196 was the norm, Phil From Howley racing was involved with the Gp A cars and prepared them for the factory.If this is a Challenge engine then the power will be 130ish IF it was really good one!!!!! Ian Avonbar

http://photobucket.com/albums/y139/Skinns46/

i think it is group A.the guy selling it said the head gasket is recessed into the block???

Edited by sauber 200 on 16th Sep, 2004.

those gaskets are around £70 a throw...

Bear in mind, he's already told you it's 250hp... What else is a stretch of the truth?

If it's a good price though, you can't go wrong!

But also bear in mind its a race engine so will have been well used!

having a look tonight,the guys taking the head off so i can check it out,he says he has a rr printout(baldwins rr)for 248bhp,(fingers crossed)

and there llies your answer to 250 brake ,pb`s rollers,.
never seen a print out from PB

Everyone knows that instructions only have to be read if the thing doesn't work....

Just for comparison, JF's car was showing circa 200bhp @ flyon baldwins rollers and then the next day (after the head gasket probs) was showing 114 @ the wheels, approx 160ish at MBE. it produced some accurate figures for some std cars on the same day so was roughly in the right ball park.

i thought baldwins was a good rr?

That's about right then. Take the 25% of for Baldwinds rollers and you get 190ish.

Far more believable.

Wil

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

at the price the guy wants 190bhp is not too bad
lol

"i thought baldwins was a good rr? "

PB does a fantastic job, and if you took the drive in / drive out power difference as a percentage, you won't find better - but the rollers are a little on the optimistic side it would appear...
I don't recall print-out's either...

I'd ignore the power - even if he shows you a dyno sheet, don't even look at it - spend your time inspecting the engine instead...

PB's rollers are good and PB knows what he is doing we had 160 on 1275 with 10 psi but later at Auto technique's dyno 148@5200.I proves the point that not all rollers or dyno's are the same in fact there is no standard for a rolling road you can take your car to half a dozen and they will all read a different story, providing you keep using the same one than you have a base to work from, unfortunately there is tooooo much bulshit on power outputs!!!! As Turbo dave says gert the thing apart and that will tell the story.

http://www.avonbar.com

I have used PB's rollers on many occasion, Dave will be a witness with it going in at 80 banannas and coming off the rollers 90 mins laters running sweet as a nut with 200 banannas!!

Minimark's car was tuned by PB and i on his rollers, That car came out sorted to.

I have never quoted my car as having 200bhp

At the Minimag RR day it did 140 on the Mech repairs rollers and 170 on PB a few days before.

PB is a top bloke who knows his stuff, he even supplies the teas!!

Use him!

Certainly does seem to know his stuff if the performance of his tuned cars is anything to go by!

I agree though, never go on power figures on the rollers other than to tell in which direction your mods are taking the power, its all in how they drive.

been to look at engine,all looks fine,1310cc
group A head gasket,modified carb,vernier timing,bottom end and gearbox still unknown,
took a chance at the right money,

I agree that Baldwin knows his stuff, there is know argument there. However, I would argue th poin that there is no standard for rolling roads. BHP is a quantifiable figure and a RR is a measuring device and as such should be able to be callibrated to give the right answer.

If the equipment I use in work was that inaccurate we'd be out of a job.

At the moment BHP values for modified cars are meaningless as it appears that no one ever has their rollers callibrated. Everyone believes the BHP that manufacturers quote so you must be able to get it right.

I know the most important thing about a RR session is having more BHP after tuning but it would be nice to know that the BHP figure you are given is right; after all this is part of what you are paying for.

Anyway Baldwins is to far away for me. I use a guy in Comgleton whos figures ar much more moddest (but in reality, no more bekievable).

Rant over

Wil

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

Totally agree with Wil...

i must admit i am one of the sad people that gets excited about bhp figures,but all rr are usefull for one thing,getting the car set up correctly regardless of power,enjoy guys LOL

Having bought some Group "A" stuff and having the oportunity to chat to Phil Hepworth {Howley/Racespec} at length about these engines, he told me the best power they saw was 214hp from a Gp "A" motor.
255hp is total bull#hit, on a 5 port head with a single carb anyway .........

Have you stripped the engine ? what other bits are in it ?

Phil.

WWW.TURBO-MINI.COM

i will be taking it apart this weekend,

Nor me!

Get some lap times and other figures out!!!

As we are all splitting hairs, Paul it is 1312cc...bosh!!

so what boost did they run then phil do you know??

Best 1/4 mile 13.2 seconds @116 mph
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on a carb?
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on Injection?

http://www.mattwoodsphotography.com

16psi or 25 psi depending who you listen too

Everyone knows that instructions only have to be read if the thing doesn't work....