From weber turbo to Fuel Ijection Turbo
Turbo Mini Forums

At the moment I run with a weber turbo intercooler but in near future I will change to computerable fueling and iginition. The ECU can be alter in any kind of way.(It is similar to MOTEC at a lower cost) I wanted to change this because weber is not very smooth and very very diffcult to adjust due to lack of jet size and other stuff avaiable down here. So hopefully at the end of next month I will run on fuel injection and will be tune on dyno. I use a IHI turbo and hope it can produce me lots of BHP. I'll let you guys know what the result will be.

Gee, you do make your life interesting. From loads of problems to even more problems.

I sincerely hope that you can make it work but so far there has been very little success in making a properly running efi turbo. Anyway, good luck !

good luck...

Watch out for neat fuel affectign the lambda readings... Pull the plugs out, clean and re-fit then remove to check for un-equal fuelling.

You can't change the laws of physics - an A-Series is a nightmare to fuel inject, no matter what name is on the ECU or how qualified the dyno operator is...
http://www.planet.eon.net/~chichm/efi/efi.htm
http://www.planet.eon.net/%7Echichm/efi/siamese.htm

What about making a wet manifold turbo EFI? Dave, we wrote about making SPI with 4 injectors (at the carb position). Do you think this could work?? I am planning to buy a Haltech E6X. Has anyone ever tried this kind of EFI setup?

Bimmer Twinky headed and turboed A-Series:
http://www.minifreunde.at/harry/projects.htm

Wet manifold should work just fine. However, what´s there to be gained ? The engine will not know whether it is fed by an HIF or EFI. If your HIF is set up spot on you´ll only get more head aches by introducing EFi and trying to get everything set up.

Don´t get me wrong, I would love to fit an Efi into my Mini but can´t simply justify the costs. Even the Dellorto saga has been costly to no specific hp increase. Sure there are some drivability issues but my gut feeling is that you get more by programmable igniton + HIF than ignition. I have to credit turboDave for first hand experience: you should read carefully what he has to say.

My idea has been to use a sophisticated platform that can support staged injectors. Use twin point type setup with smallish injectors and at higher revs use another bigger pair which is fitted further way from the head. Like Marcel found out, there is a rev limit where the small injectors hit 100 % duty cycle and larger injectors screw up the idle behaviour. Sort of compromise between wet and dry manifold. But like I said, have not really justified the costs...
Remember that it is not only the hardware, you still have to budget something like 1-2 days worth of rolling road time with a shop that really KNOWS what they are doing.

That idea about 2 sets of injectors sounds familiar. I have a 16v Peugeot and am planning something similar, there was an artice in the now defunct "CCC" about a 16v engine where they had done almost exactly what you mention, had the first set of injectors in the std place near the head, then a second set at the 'far' end of a decent length inlet manifold. Over approx 5000rpm the first set were switched to 50% duty and then also the second set were switched in. The engine in question had an increase in power from approx 180bhp to approx 205bhp, and also was more driveable to boot.
The engine in question used an Emerald M3D system as this had the capability to run both sets of injectors and swap them about.

Interesting yes... did you also see 'walker' write-ups on trying the same thing on K-series engines... These gained absolutely nothing. Not a single hp.

Single SU is still the best one for the A-series i reckon...

yes I did see the k series write up as well, interesting that the Mi16 Peugeot engine showed a good gain and the K series nothing. i suspect that this has a lot to do with the fact that the Mi16 injectors are working pretty at 80% full volume rate even on a std 160bhp engine, so were working nearly at 100% duty to fuel the modified engine, so when the twin set up was added, it allowed the injectors to run at a more sensible cycle, and the better more homogenius charge from the injectors down the manifold improved burn etc in the cylinders.

CCC is sadly missed especially Dave Walkers column and also the clinic feature they used to do.

Stock injectors on that much a duty cycle? Are they the same injectors as on the 8v? (surely not)?

Have you seen Practical Performance Car? A bit like CCC was years ago... Must say, i don't agree with everything Walker has ever said, but he knows more than me in 99% of cases, and i do like his writing style...

I think (not 100% certain on this) that the injectors are the same as the 1.9 8v ones.......
This is Peugeot we are talking about remember!!!
Mind you they must have got something right as 160bhp std from a 1900 16v engine was pretty damn good going in 1988!

PS Edit Have not seen practical performance car but will certainly be looking out for it.

Edited by Tom Fenton on 30th Sep, 2004.

Thaks for all the info and let you guys knows how it goes. Get my finger cross and hope that it all went well. Yes i plan to put two injector near the head and the extra might be some where else. The extra one can be turn on when ever I want and at all range of RPM. Why do you get a better result when you put the injector further away from the head.

Dave Walker, also known as Rave Talker :)

As I understand it, you get better results at high engine speeds (and hence high gas velocities) as the fuel when injected into the air close to the head tends to have the injector pattern 'pulled' into more of a jet at high speed. Obviously this is not a good recipe for a well mixed intake charge. By using the injectors positioned further away from the cyl head, the extra distance travelled by the air/fuel mixture allows it to mix more thoroughly and hence you get a more 'homogenious' mixture that burns better giving more power. The injectors positioned at the end of the manifold are however not much good at lower engine speed as the gas speed is not sufficient to keep the fuel in the charge, and it will tend to puddle in the manifold (on a small scale) giving poor low end running.

Jukka, you are right about the costs! I guess there will not be a lot top hp to be won - If any.
But the stuff is interesting me - I hope to gain a lot more driveability. E.g. programming a lot of ignition advance at the "off boost" revs to reduce the lag - increasing milage and so on. I see this project as "the next step experience".
(Even if it's a bad experience in my wallet )

Bimmer Twinky headed and turboed A-Series:
http://www.minifreunde.at/harry/projects.htm

Like Dave has said a lot of times, programmable ignition is a definite gain in drivability. Sadly there are very few stand alone ignition controllers. They are mostly a byproduct of the EFI controller. Well as for the cost, there are no excuses for expanding your knowledge... Want to learn, you need to pay the price !

Jukka

... considering fitting nitrous to V8 Minor ... even got a go ahead from the (wo)man in the house...

cheers