More clutch plate confusion
Turbo Mini Forums

So, here is the MED / Minispares plate that you can buy as a much cheaper alternative to the AP plate:



PaulS told me in this post it has an effective 108mm ID on the friction area, and so began discussions on area vs torque:

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=271624

Well, unless I'm missing something quite obvious, all of that is irrelevant as the ID of the backplate and clamping plate on the Verto at least (and I assume the pre-verto is the same - but don't have one on hand) is 130-135mm...

So, that means these Minispares / MED plates have the 25% or whatever of the lining sitting in fresh air - doesn't it?

I think the manufacturer of these plates make other plates - and the pucks (kind of) match the OD of the 'other' application - the ID is basically ignored here as it is sitting in fresh air...

Edited by turbodave16v on 15th Feb, 2009.

You are correct:



The inside diameter of the hole allowing for the chamfer is 134mm.

So it already has the larger effective radius and higher torque rating

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Perfect picture... Thanks!

btw - I called AP on Friday, trying to glean some infor about lining pressures. I didn't get my answer, but they did reveal that they assume / use the same friction co-eff for the race/rally orgnic to their metallic... Goes against what I'd have thought - but this much mean the organic is a pretty good material.

Dave if the same person told you that that told me there was no difference in overall weight and inertia of there sintered race plate for the mini and that of there solid sintered 7.25" plates for inline applicarutions then he will have been either very missinfirmed , trying to throw you off the scent, or just plain bullshitting,

the mini sintered plate ids a great deal heavier than the aformentioned inline plate, and i beleive that 5 puck plate to be heavier still,and it looks rather concklusive that anyone using one is happy to carry around the extra weight for no gain whatsoever,


carl

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Carl - I never said weight / inertia... I was quoting the friction value?

Out of interest, ive just weighed a couple of new unused plates.

The C-AHT596, solid centered, road rally plate - 581g

The five fingered sintered paddle plate pictured above - 794g

So what Carls says is very true.

However, when you are producing more torque than can be put through the tyres to the tarmac, engine inertia is largely irrellevant.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

That's good info Paul. Thanks.

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

one other thing that just cannot be right is the five pucks , at any time there is gonig to be uneven pressure on them, due to the three points of contact between the cover and backplate,
a solid plate and the 6 puck will have equal psessure all the time at the three lug points ,

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

On 15th Feb, 2009 Paul S said:

On 15th Feb, 2009 Rob H said:


I'm confused, if friction is dimensionless what advantage in there in fitting bigger tryres?

Once the surfaces start slipping you go from static friction to kinetic friction.

The laws of static friction were developed in the 1700s so did not consider spinning tyres

My theory is that with kinetic friction,temperature plays a major part in determining the coefficient.

So a bigger tyre grips better because it does not get so hot and maintains it's coefficient. Likewise a narrow tyre runs hotter etc.

Same for a clutch. The more the surface area, the better the clutch is at maintaining grip.

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All i know is there is need for a smooth pulling away clutch that can take big torque, over 250 + would be helpful.

Best 1/4 mile 13.2 seconds @116 mph
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on a carb?
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on Injection?

http://www.mattwoodsphotography.com

Make a centre hub...and get someone to make some carbon discs, and adapt a verto to something like this.



These carbon clutches are amazing in real life.

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

I belive the 6 puck ap plate aso overhangs the middle of the friction surface...

i seem to remember jason g's old plate having a raised bit in the middle (albeit on a pre verto setup)

from a rotatinal inertia point of view i would look at the 190 mm verto scintered plate, although it is a larger diameter it only has 4 pucks, but they will not over hang causing possible issues by wearing is an odd shape,

med steel back plates certainly not have std 125mm pre verto ID