Help! How to get rid of rust in the block
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Please help!Is there any other way to get rid of the rust in the block. The engine is compleately install and driven. What I did was to drain so many times, still after a week or so the rust is back. Water Coolent is also added to stop rust but it keep on appearing

Use enough coolant...

what mix are you running?


alex

AlexF

when you say rust in the block what you mean? rusty colour water? or a rusty snot, if this is the case it could be oil getting into water maybe?

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for this time of year and its just rusty coloured water use a stronger antifreeze mix say 60% this will then eventually get rid of the rust in the bock.

always looking for them bigger bunches of bannanas

If you don't want to run antifreeze, throw some clear liquid rust remover (can't remember which brands) Phosphoric acid in. make about a 1% solution. Should be fine. Phosphoric acid=rust reverser=antioxidant in antifreeze. Also boil your water before to get rid of dissolved gases first. Sounds stupid but it works.

Stu (chemist)

Bugger off, I'm getting there.

Great idea on the Phosphoric acid to neutralise the rust. Jenolite or something similar would do it.

However not such a great idea to run without antifreeze, when it gets cold outside overnight and your water freezes, pushes out all your core plugs, knackers your radiator and perhaps cracks your block......

Tom (Mechanical Engineer)

Also the antifreeze helps lubricate the water pump bearings believe it or not.

I dont see any reason where you wouldnt want to run anti-freeze. if your cooling system doenst like it and makes it run hot then id suggest sorting it out. side rads can be made to deal with most specs of engines and keep them cool.

Jenolite.....BING!!!! That's the stuff.

Back to cooling, it's like bottled water, you either drink it or not. Personally, I am convinced that water is the best coolant and so you need as much of it as possible. That means not diluting it with crap antifreeze.....

But, I will ask my bird to look at the freezing points of phosphoric acid solutions. That might be enough.

I do run AF in the winter though.....boiled water/jenolite in the summer. I think antifreeze sods up the jenolite idea, but if you use good stuff (good?) it doesn't freeze.

Edited by Hedgemonkey on 14th Oct, 2004.

Bugger off, I'm getting there.

Yeah but doesnt water have quite a high surface tension and the anti-freeze helps to break that.

I.e. like dropping water on a hot cooker ring, it takes a long while to evaporate.

Each to their own.

This interests me as I can't see the importance of surface tension in a cooling system. Ahhh, I suppose it could help stuff dissolve.

I will ask my aircon mate and see what he says.

Bugger off, I'm getting there.

The surface tension of the water (so im lead to believe) keeps it from contacting well with the inside of the block casting. this means that less heat is conducted into the water and then out through the rad. if the surface tension is lowered then more molecules actually touch the block/rad and more conduction can occur.

Seems to make sense although not something ive tried other than the water on a hot plate type thing

Iain (mechanical engineer)

Edited by iain on 14th Oct, 2004.

would it be like making the water more viscous reducing the surface tension?

Ok, so by breaking down the surface tension of the water, you also break down the inside tension of the water which allows it to flow better. Not be less viscous, just flow over itself more easily meaning that the area of water between the block and the stuff which is flowing well is thinner, heat conductivity goes up. Magic stuff! I'll have to give it a burn.

The best stuff for doing this would be unperfumed, non-biological, cheap as you can get washing powder!!!!

stu

Bugger off, I'm getting there.

You could try Water wetter. helps heat conduction to reduce coolant temps, AND fight corrosion.

summat like this (i knwo its american, but you can get it over here)

Sooperdooperturbocooperexpertengineering!

Ok, found some in UK



From page (in products, the addatives.)

Sooperdooperturbocooperexpertengineering!

"Ok, so by breaking down the surface tension of the water, you also break down the inside tension of the water which allows it to flow better. Not be less viscous, just flow over itself more easily meaning that the area of water between the block and the stuff which is flowing well is thinner, heat conductivity goes up. Magic stuff! I'll have to give it a burn."

Not quite. The surface tension only affects the 'interface' between the water and whatever it is in contact with. So for instance a glass of water, the interface is between the water and the glass, and also the water and the air (at the top of the glass).


In terms of an engine, obviously the interface we are interested in is the one between the water and the iron surfaces inside the cooling jacket.

The best analogy I can come up with is such-
Imagine a bed-sheet draped over the top of a small pyramid. With no tension applied to the sheet at all, it will make good contact with a large proportion of the area of the pyramid. If you then get 4 blokes one at each corner, and pull the sheet tight, you have now only got contact at the very tip of the pyramid. This is the same as what is happening (albeit on a very small scale) with the interface between iron block and water. Imperfections on a microscopic scale on the iron face mean that when surface tension exists in the water, you are not getting a good contact between the water and the iron, hence this impedes cooling efficiency. By lowering the surface tension of the water, you are letting it 'drape' as in the analogy and so improving the contact between it and the block faces. Difficult to visualise this happening on such a small scale I know.
The commercially available products such as 'Water Wetter' as far as I know, both lower the surface tension, and also contain smaller molecules than water, which will then help to fill voids left by what surface tension exists.

"The best stuff for doing this would be unperfumed, non-biological, cheap as you can get washing powder!!!!"

I wouldn't do this.....unless you like a good stream of bubbles coming from your rad overflow for ever more......

Edited by Tom Fenton on 15th Oct, 2004.

No, the stuff in washing powder is SDS (Sodium Dodecyl Sulphate) which is a bubbles free soap. Probably a dry form of what water wetter is.

I'm still not convinced how it works...........

Will give a definitive answer in due course.

Bugger off, I'm getting there.