RR Today at Emerald findings
Turbo Mini Forums

Alright Chaps,
As some of you mayknow i took the Mini back down to Emerald today for some more mapping work now that ive moved some things around etc. One of the changes that i made was to put the IAT in the inlet.

I was running the recirc on the charger as Stu at Vmax advised in order to drop the boost down. This worked but we were still seeing up to 13psi!

The scary thing is though that IAT was up to around 100 degrees C!!! And peaked to 105 when you shut the throttle before dropping back down God knows what they would have been getting up to when it was running near 18psi!

Needless to say i really need to slow the charger down and drop the boost and temps. as theres no chance of geting an intercooler in anywhere. Ive discussed this briefly with some of you before but whats the best/cheapest option...

Bigger charger pulley? If so can you reccomend anyone that could fabricate one?

Also what do you think i should get the boost down to Dave at Emerald reckons about 8psi.

Got to say that once again Dave deliversed a first class service, a top bloke who certainly knows his stuff.

Edited by Andy500 on 17th Apr, 2009.

I take it you're running the M45 ? If so anything over 10psi seems to be a waste of time. 8 psi seems to be what most folks run on these.

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instead of intercooling (if space is an issue) or dropping the boost, have you though of water injection to cool the charge? Might be worth a look...

What pullies etc are you running. I have an m45 setup and I am only seeing 8psi on my guage? I was considering water injection for the future but need to find out how much water you need and how long it lasts etc. I dont want to be putting in water every five mins. Any pics of your setup

Yep running the m45 as supplied by Vmax Scart. It uses the standard mpi crank pully and bmw charger pulley. So i guess all the other people running the same mpi kits will be suffering with high boost as well. Just seems odd that stuart wouldnt have looked in to this.

Ric, i thought about water injection but dont really want the extra myther of an additional tank somewhere and third injector etc. I would rather sacrafice the boost pressure really especially as the m45 seems to produce no more power and just shit loads of heat.

maybe you got given the wrong pully? is it a carb or inj? have you thought about air ducts to the charger to see if that helps cool it down?

Drives
-Ford S-max Mk2 Ecoboost
-Rover 100 VVC #2 - track project

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What is the diameter of your standard pulley?

have you thought aboput adding a very small amount of N2O to cool in inlet charge,

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carl has a good point, the n2o will cool the charge signficantly, maybe just add a few hp of n2o aboube about 7 psi (oil pressre swtch pressure)

how much room is trhere to lift the supercharger, before it hits the bonnet,

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not much unless you kick the back of the bonet up.

are you thining chargecooler carl?

personally i would add a tiny bit of water before the charger to increase its efficntcy and a tiny bot of n20 after (where the heat os greaist and cooling wiiil be most benifical) triggered by a presure switch above aroybd 7 psi.

what about that cryo2 stuff? co2 cooling on the inlet charge they do small spray kits could do one over the supercharger like you would on an intercooler?

EG one of these
http://www.designengineering.com/products.asp?m=sp&pid=5

hooked up to one of these
http://www.designengineering.com/products.asp?m=sp&pid=72

Edited by Paul R on 17th Apr, 2009.

Drives
-Ford S-max Mk2 Ecoboost
-Rover 100 VVC #2 - track project

Searching is all you need on TurboMinis

could do, bit how much surace area doue the sc habe?

doy too much beert!

Edited by Joe C on 17th Apr, 2009.

I had thouht about those cryogenic kits and they my be the way forward.

Theres balls all room to lift the chargr really and i dont want to have to add a bulge or vent or anything.

What i really want is something sustainable and that i wont have to refill every other week when i want to use the car which is why i was shying away from nitrous or cryogenics Having said that there is quite a lot of surface area to the charger which being a big lump of casting is just absorbing and retaining quite a bit of heat.

The standard pulleys as fitted are 65mm dia on charger and 115mm dia on crank.

Im still heading toward the idea of dropping the boost as Dave Walker reccomended.

Vmax offer a charge cooler kit which is basically a heat exchangr which straddles the charger, its £200 ish for the complete system with its own coolant system but im just worried that that would be a waste of money as i dont know how effective that could be.

But how about using one of the charge coolers as listed above but with a cryogenic spray over the rad/heat exchanger to help cool the cooling water further when required. Other option could be to just fire a mist of water over the charger casing?

haha i have got it :) you know thoes gay chav "nitrous plurge kits" which get wired into your windscreen washer fluid tank, they produce a nice fine spray from there jets, cheap as they are chavy and easy to use and maintain as your just wiering in a new washer jet bottle and pump, never thought about that untill just now how cool?

Drives
-Ford S-max Mk2 Ecoboost
-Rover 100 VVC #2 - track project

Searching is all you need on TurboMinis

The biggest problem with any sort of N2O or water injection is that it is not a continuous system, it eventualy runs out.

I have thought for a long time that the solution to this problem is to fabricate some sort of spacer block that acts as a discharge of the compressor, so you can take off the discharge air from underneath, feed it through an intercooler and then back to the other side of the block and into the manifold. Two seperate channels in the block obviously. There is loads of room on that compressor outlet, its fookin huge and only a tiny part of it is used on the mini. Then its a matter of injecing the fuel after the intercooler but before the manifold.

This all depends on how much room there is above the charger. But I would imagine you could do this with maybe a 1" block with the apropriate width hole for air flow. I mean, the supercharger inlet manifold is not exactly the most efficient of designs is it. As long as the airflow is not restricted it should work.

Edited by Sprocket on 18th Apr, 2009.

Another solution would be to build a new inlet manifold with a chargecooler in it, utilise the space to the rear of the bulkhead area. Lots of cars use this solution, take a look at the s/c kit for the new MX5 for a good example. The company to talk to about parts is Magnusun in the US as they engineer most of these kits for the oems/aftermarket.

As a short term fix I'd fit a smaller pulley

JK

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

to spray over the charger as a thought cools it down then but not sure if it would work that well was just an idea :)

Drives
-Ford S-max Mk2 Ecoboost
-Rover 100 VVC #2 - track project

Searching is all you need on TurboMinis

If there cheap and easy then it may well be worth a shot, where do you get them from?

Right ive spent the evening looking at solutions to my problem and was quite in to the idea of water injection, that is untill i did a search for it on here.

I noticed that most of the turbo boys that have had this have now removed it as it was found to be a waste of time and a bit of a bodge to cover the root cause of the problems.

I could easily intergrate it in to my system, with the water being injected in to the intake pipe before the charger (as with the fuel). Would this be a piss poor idea for my set up or would i see a usefull drop in IAT's.

I reckon i could buy and install a decent system for less than the price of having a new pulley made for the charger (especially if i need to buy a pulley remover as well). As Carl suggested earlier Nitrous may be a good option but i dont like the idea of paying for refills etc.

So should i give it a go or just fook the whole idea off.

If i go with the latter can anyone reccomend where i can get a new pulley made and can somebody lend/hire me a puller?

Thanks
Andy

Cant you change the bottom pulley? I can measure mine if you like and see how it compares to yours?

Hi Lockfast, tha would be great if you dont mind. Are you running your system on an injection engine or carb? Also are you using a 5PK serpentine belt? Whre did you get your pulley from?
Cheers
Andy

Give me 10 min will go and measure