Siamese Code Trial - Take Four
Turbo Mini Forums

Thanks Jean, just in time.

EDIT: I assume that this code will require a new .msq as the data structure has changed?

Edited by Paul S on 24th Jun, 2009.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Hmmmmm.

Well I've loaded it, reset Megatune, and managed to reload my latest msq.

I can see the third injection timing table and have swapped all three tables to some "test" values but I can't find the menu (or whatever) to set the actuation RPM and hysteresis RPM.

I assumed it would be in the table switching menu (under extended) but it only has fuel and ignition table switching, nothing to switch injection.

I'm obviously doing something stupid (again) but I can't figure out what.....

EDIT - I've also noticed that although I've gained the third injection timing table, I haven't gained the third "fixed value" settings ????

I've checked the ini files copied correctly to Megatune and the timestamps match the zip file, so I can't see anything obvious wrong....

EDIT 2 - having searched the ini file, it appears I should have a new option in the Advanced, sequential injection menu called "Sequential Siamese Hybrid Mode" which would then enable all the other settings but, although it's in the ini file, it's not appearing in Megatune.......

Edited by Rod S on 24th Jun, 2009.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

It seems I have hit yet another Megatune limitation. Since I now use TunerStudio only, I missed this one. If you use TS, you'll see the options at the end of the sequential menu. Megatune just prunes the end of the window.

I'll have to see how I'll deal with this one.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

And Paul, loading your current msq should work but you should check if you get any error message (other than the mismatched version). If not, you'll be ok.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

http://www.jbperf.com/

Oh well, at least it wasn't a mistake by me this time (as is usually the case....) :)

I did look at Tuner Studio after one of your earlier comments Jean, I didn't bother downloading it at the time as it was just "another thing to learn"....

I'll load it tonight but I think if we want to encourage people to start experimenting with your code over here, the comments have so far been it's too complicated already (or similar) so if there is a nice simple fix to make it run on Megatune again, it would help (I think).

Rod.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Actually, the easy way would be to use TunerStudio from the start. I think it's actually easier to use than MT. And while it does have it's own quirks, it usually has fewer things that can be messed up and keep you from having a working setup.

But I've been at it for so long that it's difficult for me to really put myself in the shoes of a new user.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

Fair point Jean - as I've not tried, I can't compare......

The thing is that, as a new user, everything on the Megasquirt site, build manual, etc, directs you to use Megatune.... so I did !!!

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Yeah, I know. The problem is that the Megasquirt site is not MS/extra friendly. And even the MS2/Extra manual refers to Megatune but I assume this part will likely change.

But I think I'll put something on my web page on the sequential code about using TunerStudio (I already have something but maybe not with enough emphasis). Also, here we should be recommending the use of TunerStudio for the new users. That's going to save them from going though what you did and have to learn 2 tuning applications.

I will still look into how I'll correct the current menu problem in MT. I'll just have to put another menu item with siamese-specific tuning parameters (which is going to be kind of a pain for users).

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

OK,

That was a real pain to setup (get the comms working)....

And then the menu wasn't quite how I expected from the ini file, but the hybrid mode is there at the bottom of the panel.....

I'll experiment on the scope tommorow :)

Rod.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

I'm putting in the car tomorrow

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Well I could put mine in the car tomorrow too !!!

It just wouldn't go very far as no wheels yet

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

So without a finished car, here is what it will do......

First, remember I'm now using PWM for the low z injectors so you have to look at the first wide pule and then add the following shorter ones as if it was one big one....

Running 0/0 degress in the first two tables for the test and with 90 in the third table.

And with 5k RPM set for the pulse change.

About 4k RPM


Then just below 5k RPM where the pulses merged before, BUT, no glitch this time


And then, just above 5k RPM, a perfect switch to a single pulse


And on the (new today) Tuner studio,
just below 5k


And just above


See the two pulse widths suddenly become one on just the first injector and the timing switches to 90 degres as I'd set it....


Absolutely brilliant Jean....

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Great stuff.

Glad to see that you have the hang of Tuner Studio. You're ahead of me with that :)

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

most exciting !!

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Thanks Rod.

There is one caveat though. If you use the recording function on your scope, you'll see that the transition is not always perfect. There might be one extra pulse when going up (the first of the dual pulse and the single pulse) and one missing pulse when going down (the first of the dual pulses). But this is only on a single cycle and will not always happen.

The reason it does happen is that the pulse sequencing and pulse width computations are asynchronous with respect to the toothed wheel interrupts. So the rpm threshold can be reached any time during the cycle and the next pulse will be sequenced and computed according to that new RPM and state. It would be possible to keep the state until the next cycle start (or actually starting on cylinder 2 or 3) but the added complexity is really significant and would require always computing both values and keeping them available, keeping a pending state change, and checking the state (and any pending change) in a different place in the code which would require more new code.

I don't know if that will be an issue so I'd like to hear your opinion on this. It might be almost unnoticeable or may cause a bad stumble. Of course, it will depend on where the threshold and hysteresis are put and the conditions under which they are reached. I don't think the missing pulse when going down is going to be an issue since for the RPM to go down you have to be off the throttle in any case and fueling will be down but the extra pulse when going up may be noticeable (but still safe).

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

OK Jean - I'll have a play tommorow and see if I can replicate it but, as you say, an extra pulse on the way up is rich, so totally safe.... a misfire at the worst but no melted pistons.

And on the way down, who cares.....

Let's see if Paul can find it when driving.... as he has mentioned he will be doing so tommorow while I'm still cutting/grinding/welding

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Depends on your driving style, but if we set the transition to say 3500rpm, then under normal cruise conditions you're always at the dual pulse mode.

But then if you fancy a bit of acceleration, then you will only go through it once and you will be in single pulse mode.

I doubt that it will be a problem even if you get a momentary hesitation.

Lots to do tomorrow (Rod note spelling) as I need to change injectors and make sure that they are secure under boost, then set up TS and build an MSQ that will be a combination of previous working setups.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

what does tunerstudio offer over megatune or megalogviewer?

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

MegaLogViewer is for viewing logs (as the name implies) and not for setting tuning parameters (although it does tune the VE table based on the log).

Megatune is the original (well, almost) tuning software and it still is fully functional for most MS firmware versions. It just isn't maintained and developed anymore. Also, it is Windows-only.

TunerStudio fully supports the Megatune file formats and is java-based so it's multi-platform. It also has fewer restrictions and is actively supported by it's author. It is however not open source.

In the case of the siamese code (and non-siamese sequential), it has allowed me to go over some of the short comings of Megatune.

But from a user perspective, you have more bells and whistles in the interface and more coming. You can also create your own gauges and dashboards to have whatever look you want. Megatune has a fixed 8-gauge "dash" that can't be changed even though you can change the gauges functions.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

ah ok cheers guys,

i have just down loaded TS, i'll give it a go at some point.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Try giving it the ini file that came in the zip package of Jean's (that would have been taken automatically by Megatune when you run the copyini.bat programme), EXCEPT that it is wrongly named in the zipfile as megasquirt-ii.ini.ms2extra - the batch file that copies it to Megatune removes the ms2extra bit from the end and leaves it as a plain ini file !!!!!

So copy it somewhere else and rename it correctly then point TS to it. Make sure it's the ms2extra not the us2extra that you copy.

Even then, I had to get TS to ask the CPU what version was installed, its actually 3.0.3e so you have to have upgraded the Megasquirt first before trying TS......

Yes, it was a pain.....

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???