Another frustrating day....
Turbo Mini Forums

OK, the car was never going to be finished before Sunday but I did want to test out the twin widebands on the turbo engine by the end of the week...... so that meant plumbing the oil in.

The flange I need from Paul H is delayed somewhere in the Eire/UK postal system,
The new hose I ordered went **** so I cancelled the order,
The spare hose has a slightly different end fitting to the turbo end banjo, could get around that one easily enough, but.....
The fittings at the block end..... "new" Avonbar, after several days delay because they "had to order them in especially" sent me this for the block adapter and hose connector (Note, that is the hose connector block end 28TPI BSPP, not the turbo end 27TPI NPTP, I did check with thread guages and even tried it in the turbo hole....).



????????????????????????????

Apart from the left had bit (the block adapter) having the correct 3/8" UNF thread, how am I supposed to connect the hose - or two hoses as they seem to think !!!!!

Not surprisingly, this is what happens



They have now said they will send some bits out from their "hose kit" (which they no longer list anyway) to see if any of them work......

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Avonbar have been selling that for years and years. They seemed to think that copper washers will seal just fine against a cast surface, hoping that the paralell thread doesn't bottom out first.

What you need is a NPT taper to NPT parallell adapter. You should be able, nay, WILL be able to find someone in the UK to get you this stuff.

Edited by TurboDave16V on 9th Jul, 2009.

Dave, it's not the copper washer against a cast surface so much, but more the fact the surrounding bits of casting are ALL higher in any route the hose could run, so I can't get the hose parallel to the block (or perpendicular to the adapter) without packing about 6-8 copper washers in there.....

EDIT - the hole in the block is 3/8 UNF (as is that end of the adapter) and everything at the engine end is then 1/8 BSP, (either taper or parallel) as far as I can tell, or another 3/8 UNF for an oil switch - the NPT (P) is at the turbo end only.

Too many different threads to worry about....... and I did all my twin wideband sample tubes in NPT(T) because I thought it would be simpler........

EDIT 2 - just to show how many copper washers would be needed to put the hose right



and then there would be next to no threads in the block....

There must be an extension piece required (which I don't have).

Edited by Rod S on 9th Jul, 2009.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Most folks use a series of tee pieces to feed the turbo, a guage and the pressure switch.

Are you sure that the block is 3/8 UNF? Mine are all 1/8 BSP.

I've used a gauge block, screwed 1/4 BSPT on 4 sides. Then fitted adaptors down to 1/8BSPT and then fitted all the take off to it in 1/8 BSPT.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Yes, my block is definately 3/8 UNF parallel (the oil pressure switch would have been 3/8 UNF taper or maybe 1/8 BSPT graunched in) but the Avonbar adapter is absolutely 3/8 UNF parallel to accept the copper washers on the banjo union and screws in fine...... except it won't take the hose as it puts it far too close to the raised bits of the casting on the block....

I ended packing the Avonbar adapter out with alternating copper/steel washers just to pump some oil around, and it pissed out at both ends because the turbo fitting is wrong too....

As the old phrase goes - if you want something done right ..... do it yourself.

I'll wait and see what the next bag of bits Avonbar send are like but, somehow, I know I'll be machining up my own adapter...........

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

You could put a sleeve to cover the exposed threads with a copper washer at either end.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

It would do to get you running, then you could knock up something more impresive....

Rod i have a sneaky feeling that Avonbar may have 'especially ordered one in' from that dick on ebay 'minipart', i know hydraullic fitings dont vary all that much, but that does look like his work.

What you will also find i that even if the bolt was the right length, the shank of the banjo will foul the block slightly too

I say this as i had exactly your problem and more, after pissing about for weeks, being sent randon banjo bolts from guy (the owner of miniparts who hasnt got a clue) i just got the bits separately locally.

"Turbo's make torque, and torque makes fun"

"did you know you can toast potato waffles?"

I have the same set-up as you but I have a male BSP to male BSPT adaptor between the block and banjo.

Own the day

Joey, you are exactly right, it is the shank of the banjo fouling the block that cocks it over at an angle. I have temporarily put a mix of steel and copper packing washers to space it out a bit but that leaves very few threads in the block.

Today, a bag of random bits came from Avonabar for me to try out - I think they are missing a certain person's expertise.....

Mr Joshua, yes, a short male to male adapter is what I want (to act as a spacer), but in my case it is 3/8 UNF. It's strange you say BSP because Paul S did too, but mine is definately 3/8 UNF into the block (then I have a choice of two banjo bolts one UNF, one BSP).

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Checking the Zues book!

Own the day

Well here's the bag of random bits Avonbar have now sent....



The 1/8" BSPP banjo bolt was the correct bit of the original order (2nd line) so it's just a duplicate...

The rest of the bits are aluminium, and not one of them has the correct 3/8" UNF thread for the block (1st line of original order).

And the banjo won't screw into any of the holes on the Tee piece so its threads must be female BSPT or NPT(T).

What the NIC fitting is for.... I haven't a clue.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

1- (preety obvious)

2-adapter for fitting the T-Piece into the Block

3-Banjo bolt for t3 (forget the size)

4- Fitting for oil take off on the t-piece, when using a braided line like this...

(picture of mine set-up ready to go on the car)



Like you can see they sent you a fitting kit for there own braided line, which has a NIC fitting apposed to the banjo head on yours.

Edited by TomBooth on 11th Jul, 2009.

Oh, Tom....

Wrong...

! - pretty obvious if it had the right threads, but it doesn't

2 - doesn't fit in block because it doesn't have a 3/8" UNF thread on the block end. You can graunch an 1/8" BSP thread into a 3/8" UNF hole if you try hard enough, especially if one of the parts is aluminium but then I've just had someone on ebay tell me a 3/8" UNC fitting is perfectly alright in an M10 hole as well.....

3 - banjo bolt is NOT for a T3 as it is 28 TPI (just like the one they already supplied me) whereas the turbo fitting is 27 TPI. Again, you can grauch 28 TPI into 27 if you try hard enough....

4 - if their hose comes out the wrong way on an NIC fitting, so be it, but it won't fit a standard hose...

As you can see from the invoice they provided (first line) it is for a 3/8" UNF to 1/8" BSP adapter plus (second line) the 1/8" banjo for a conventional hose.

Neither the bag of bits they sent, or your photo satisfy the invoice/order description that I paid for.

And, I would NEVER use aluminium fittings for this duty. At least the wrong ones they initially supplied were steel.

Rant over.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Apologies, I thought they had sent you the same kit as I had, looking at the photo. I wish I could be of more help but my limited knowledge on this is preety lost here, sorry chap.

Tom,

Maybe they have sent the same, but the thread in the block is 3/8" UNF, not 1/8" BSP.

As I say, it will grauch in bit it's not right.

Equally, the turbo end, 27 vs 28 TPI will graunch in but I only ordered the block end fittings aqnyway (as per the invoice they resent to me in the photo). That clearly states I should have had a 3/8" UNF to 1/8" BSP adapter to attach a conventional banjo fitting with the 1/8" BSP banjo bolt they also supplied...........

Second rant over....

I am now going to machine up my own.....

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Will these be of any help to you?



If you are only needing two points these should do fine.

Own the day

Tom, whats the tiny yellow condom for?

"Turbo's make torque, and torque makes fun"

"did you know you can toast potato waffles?"

Protection for the banjo to stop debris ingress.

Own the day

www.camauto.com

this is the place where avonbar get their hoses from. He's a good chap and probably able to sort out the bits you need.

IIRC nobody seems to do the american parallel pipe thread that the turbo is. Its a weird and wonderful. This was a long time back when i was sorting hoses for other people.

I'll take that as a no then.

Own the day

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

I kind of realised the lack of activity was probably due to the fact you were all talking face to face.

Basically these items were taken from an engine which had an oil pressure gauge and an oil pressure switch fitted. If you are fitting a gauge and turbo oil feed or switch and turbo oil feed these will cater for that. I don’t use them because I have my oil pressure gauge, turbo oil feed and oil pressure switch fitted so needed three connections instead of two.

Own the day