Drive shafts too short with Metro hubs & pot joints!?
Turbo Mini Forums

I've done a bit of reading on this and other forums, and not much mention is made of a problem like what I'm having - I hope someone can help!

My car has standard mini driveshafts with pot joints, and currently has metro hubs with vented discs, and the ball race sits so far out of the pot joint, it spends most of it's time grinding, growling and generally trying to shake the car to bits.
So my question is, are the metro hubs to blame, or is it more to do with the location of the cv joint thanks to the vented disc flange?
Do I need to use a different mini drive shaft, or ditch the metro hubs / vented disc combo?
This problem exists on the LHS (short shaft side). I've not yet looked at the RHS to see where the ball race sits in the pot joint.
I don't fancy paying for custom drive shafts!
Any advice much appreciated.
Matt

I have heard bad things about fitting the metro hubs as it throws your suspension geometry miles out. most people just fit the metro flanges to the standard mini hub

First question is, why do you use Metro hubs?

the metro hubs throw out all the geometry i believe; your best bet would be to use the standard mini hubs with the metro brakes - i can't recall if you use the metro drive flange or not though

Vegard,
I am still trying to get away with using them - when I committed to using them some years ago on this restoration, there was basically no info available on them here in Australia, and the internet hadn't really taken hold. Believe me, I've been restoring this car for ages!
That said, I am happy to get the mini hub, ball joints and wheel bearings if I have to, but if it's cheaper or simpler to solve this problem another way, I will.
The car does have all of the adjustable suspension bits, and has had a wheel alignment, so apart from this, it's ready to go. I understand that mini hubs are the best way to go for steering geometry.... thanks in advance. matt

king pin inclination is better on the metro hubs though is it not? I think Carl have used metro hubs on his cars? or am I mistaken?

Whether metro ones are worse or not is going depend on how your overall suspension has been set up including the backspace of your wheels relating to the bottom arm length etc (if adjustable). I'm sure someone with more knowledge than me on this subject can elaborate though.

Edited by manifold on 19th Nov, 2009.

ithought denis evolotion was running the mtro hubs and uprights on his to good effect for high speed handling , it reduces the scrub radius and give a longer steering arm to create less sensitive steering at high speed ... i have nevr heard of a problem with shaft length ,perhaps a search on '16v minis.com' would help.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

I've used std mini shafts with the metro uprights, they should be fine.

you definately need to use the metro steering arms too,

the metro dribe dlanges will not affect where the CV joint sits so thats no the problem either.

How much diference is there between left and right shafts? I assume its not possible to fit two short ones or get them the wrong way round?

Apparently there is two types of pot joint, a larger and smaller one, could you have two mixed?

only other thing i can think of is the c ring is missing from the cv end of the shaft and the shaft is sliding too far into the CV joint.

Thanks everyone. I will check the CV joint end; hadn't thought that the shaft could slide too far in. Otherwise, I guess it's a good thing that nobody has heard of the short shaft problem. I will also check the other side... Cheers. Matt

been so logn since i have messed with a-series stuff, but the shafts are different legnths arnet they(just)? could you have 2 short shafts?

i remember a discussion a while back on differnt types of pot joint aswell but dont think the difference was in legnth. again could be wrong!

Edited by evolotion on 19th Nov, 2009.

turbo 16v k-series 11.9@118.9 :)

Denis O'Brien.

Hmmm but the problem is on the left hand side which is where the short shaft should be fitted....(unless my minds gone blank?)

So if you had TWO short shafts then this problem SHOULD be on the right hand side instead of left.....no?

thats true,

below are uprated shafts, normally the welded on bit is a clip in a groove,
that could have broken so the shaft goes into the cv further, maybe enough to cause issues at the pot joint end.

I pulled the thing apart today, and found that the square section clip was in place, and had been holding the drive shaft properly in the CV joint. I also compared the shaft length to two spares I have, and they're all the same, at 373mm. Is this the standard length for LH side pot joint shafts? Could I have an odd CV joint or pot joint?

This is the position of the joint with the suspension compressed (wheel off, jacking up the lower arm).



Matt

Edited by mpe on 21st Nov, 2009.

thats Fooking weird!

any spacers under either of the engine mounts? I'm thinking you could have an Auto front sub frame, and some one has put a spacer on one side only.

Folks,
Seems I've got it sussed. Because I'm a duffer, I had the outer ball race installed back to front; see pics. It was only a matter of 8mm or so, but enough to cause the problem. It does seem odd that the balls rest so far out in a correctly assembled pot joint, but I guess it's been this way with minis since time immemorial, so it can't be a problem.
That said, I'd be interested to hear more on this from anyone who feels able to comment....




Thanks for all the help.
Matt

The only time ive had pot joints pull out has been when the engine mount have been buggered.

"So wat we gonna do tonight Brain?"
"Same thing we do evernight Pinky!"
"Try to take over the world!"

Ah,

Never noticed this could be done, Maybe that was the issue with my metty van 13 years ago...

they sit far out as the firther in you go the less articulation the joint has before binding :)

turbo 16v k-series 11.9@118.9 :)

Denis O'Brien.