TOLUENE purchace ?..........
Turbo Mini Forums

wondering where ia can purchace some Toluene from
have been doing a little reading on this as a anti knock addative octane booster any good leads would be appreciated
the easyer the lead the better. any info guys ?
THANKS.

you can buy it...

but its stupidly expensive!

like ?20 a litre...

I looked into this ages ago...

besides there are easier ways to get more power

alex

AlexF

Ok, Toluene=Methyl Benzene, Xylene=di-Methyl Benzene. (similar stuff)

Toluene and Xylene=Cellulose Thinners

Colour tainted cellulose thinners=brush thinners=cheap=available in your auto paint store.

Cheap=about 80p/litre.

www.tetraboost.com do proper lead which is the deal. (Use with 95 octane unleaded) unleaded 98 uses Benzene to boost the octane. Benzene as well as cellulose thinners reduce the effect of lead as an octane booster (detonation suppressor) and so you want as little in there as possible.

If you choose to use lead in your fuel (great idea) you can boost the tits out of it by adding 2ml/L of Aniline or Methyl-Aniline (Benzamine and Methyl Benzamine). If you get low benzene fuel add 4ml/L of TEL and 2ml/L of aniline. That equates to about 160 (pump) octane. Or about 35Psi boost (ish)

Any fuel advice, give me an email. It's my speciality.

Bugger off, I'm getting there.

Hi Hedgemonkey

Maybe it would be advisable to mention the dangers involved in manipulating toluene, benzene, and anilines carelessly, as I understand they are extremely carcinogenic substances? I remember a chemist once calling aniline a "protein solvent".

I am sure you are aware of these dangers, but maybe not all the people reading these postings are...

I wish people working at gas stations, for example, knew how much more dangerous "new" (lead-free, that is) fuels are to you if you inhale their vapours or get your skin contaminated with the stuff.

Where the heck were you trying to buy tolune at ?20 a litre ???? I used to pay more like 50-60 pence a litre. There are different grades of the stuff, based on the purity of the product.

Place i worked at a few years ago used to have 20,000 gallons of it stored on site. One guy used to drain some for his own use if you know what i mean. The guy ran his car totally on the stuff. Didn't go great as it was never set up to run correctly.

These are carcinogenic substances like petrol, infact i think you'll find that a lot of unleaded, partic the super unleaded have toluene in them to begin with.

When the refiners are making fuel, they really end up with a bit of a mixed bag of hydrocarbons. The octane is measured and the fuel is modified to raise it to a minimum suitable level. They do this by adding more highly refined solvents such as toluene.

Toluene is not as carcinogenic as Benzene, as i remember xylene slides in between the two. As with all solvents its advisable to not inhale the vapours or have skin contact.

160 octane ? sounds high are we talking mon or ron ??

thanks guys, i think toluene is the safest and least expensive way to go for me i know lead is great as a octane booster, but looking for a cheaper way.
mirage wonder which sort of stores will sell toluene ?any ideas
hedgemonkey is the so called celulose thinners 100% toluene?

alex you must have been ripped of buddy

Yep, Benzene is horrible beyond horrible and so is Aniline. But, the chances of you getting hold of any are very limited. Allthough benzene is one of the most horrible chemicals possible and is largely banned everywhere (apart from unleaded!!!!!!!) the frigging yoghurt weavers are at it again. If you are careful and don't make a point of giving yourself a regular large dose of either, you should be fine. I think only SOME people who worked regularly with benzene got Leukemia. Once again they banned an excellent chemical for the use of the careful. Bloody nanny state. I've forgotten what my Dad called the stuff, it had a slang name, but people used to wash allsorts in it, including themselves!

I agree, repeat Aniline exposure is a bad idea, but if you don't get any on your hands, no problem there. The best method is to try and minimise exposure to everything.

Tetraethyl Lead is a hideous chemical, it is absorbed through your skin like Aniline and makes some horrible stuff in your bloodstream.

Toluene and Xylene used to be sloshed around in the lab like water, so I can assume that it is less of an issue. If the proper experts weren't bothered, it probably wasn't a problem.

As with anything you don't know whats in it, wash your hands in soapy water, try not to get it on your hands or breathe it in. Pretty common sense. But then again, not to be over paranoid about the whole thing.

I used to get residues off my hands with this stuff called Dimethylsulfoxide, which is a cracking solvent for shit which petrol won't shift. I used to wash my hands in it and that is about the worst stuff you can get on your hands. Still here, functioning 100%.......

Bugger off, I'm getting there.

oops I got over excited there... ?2 a litre!

alex

AlexF

The problem with getting hold of tol is that really you have to be a business user with a business address. The old health and safety have tightened up and want you to have solvent stores for more than about 5 litres or something daft. What you need is a friendly company who will help you out, they can buy it as a general cleaning degreasing solvent.

Hedgemonkey you must have worked in the same lab as me !! lol we used to have the stuff sloshing around, used it for everything bar boiling to make the tea !!! Use to use a load of Methyl ethyl Ketone, great at fetching your nose lining out !!!

I can supply silkolene proboost octane booster, we use it in the F1 engines.

Another thought, how about LPG !! From my research this has high Octane value, but not sure if its mon or ron.

LRP is slow buring I was lead to believe!

alex

AlexF

It may be slower burning, but do you need a really rapid burning fuel for a fairly low reving turbo motor ?? I mean what you need to fuel an 18K rpm f1 motor is different than a high performance road car.

this is true...

I couldnt get an answer to when "slow" became an issue... After all one of the touring cars last year ran on lpg!

alex

AlexF

So what would happen if you put Toluene and Xylene or either one on its own, in your fuel?

"I'll get there in the end"

Back in the days of F1 past, one of the things they did to limit engine output was to ban exotic fuels, this was when they introduced the pump fuel regs and each team had to nominate a short list of local fuel stations from the opriate fuel sponsor for the team. In essence what this was to do was to remove toluene from the fuel, which at this point of time was made up of a large part of the solvent. However local fuel stations started to get deliveries of very very good pumpo fuel the week before the grandprix!!!! lol

I've done some work on converting a fleet of single seaters to run on LPG. Nothing very exiting in terms of performance, but the results were good and this was using a quite crude regulator and fogger setup that you would use with a carb setup. I did have a chat with the suppliers about turbo use and he thought the kit he could provide would work, but i wasn't so sure it would work well. I think your touring car motors rev to around 9-10 k i think (not into touring cars at all), so it isn't going to be a concern at 6-7k rpm. The single seaters i tried it with went to 6.5k

thanks for the imput guys,
i will be sorting some toluene out shortley with the other reserch i have done iam in the ball park
will keep you all posted
cheers

I don't know much about LPG but I think the flame speed (Edit-Higher) and octane number are lower, I think the calorific value is quite high though. Hence you have to back the ignition off a bit. IIRC

In resonse to running toluene/xylene neat, it would be like using premium unleaded (I think).

Interested in the Methyl-ethyl-ketone-peroxide stuff, I have got a big bottle of that somewhere. You might try styrene if you have some of that lying around, but not with the MEK! (It will set, obviously). I wouldn't advise putting MEK in the tank, it might cause some fun melting seals, etc, etc.

Edited by Hedgemonkey on 12th Jan, 2005.

Bugger off, I'm getting there.

What seals ?? you mean the melted black goop thats running out of joints !! lol. No do not put mek in your car, it was just a talking point !! lol. Wasn't on about Peroxide, like you use as a catalyst for polyester and methacrylate resins etc. I used the actual solvent, many hazy days spent floating around the lab !! lol