Specialist components Traction control
Turbo Mini Forums

Now I could have emailed John, but I thought that the answer to my question may benefit others.

After reading in MiniMag about Johns car last night I was interested in the TC. I've wanted some form of TC for a while on the hillclimber, but it's not easy with carb'd cars. but now there is a good 7-port option it makes it a possibility.

The MiniMag article suggests that the rear wheel speed is compared to the front to provide control. It intimated that only one rear wheel was used. Now this may be ok for starts, but sometimes I want to apply power (and get wheel spin) on the exit of corners with a rear wheel still in the air and not rotating.

Can the system cope with this scenario?

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

Wil - theres only one rear sensor on my car due to only using TC/launch in a straight line.lol!

For a hillclimb/track car you would need two rear sensors - my car is the exception to the rule rather than the norm.

JK

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

Beautiful. I just need to keep saving now!!

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

A point worthy of discusion is how it would be implemented in a carburetted car.

Sturgeo and I were discussing how we would implement it with the siamese code injection, which itself raises issues.

If you are using it with a carbed car, then you could only cut ignition to gain traction.

Would you be happy dumping all the unburnt fuel into the turbo?

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

no ,you could also retard ignition..

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

or just slow down a bit...lol

I was looking at this:

http://www.racelogic.co.uk/?show=Traction_...al-How_it_Works

No talk of retarding the ignition, but I assume that is an option.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

With the MS the maximum you can retard the ignition is 10 deg. On an NA car this stops the engine. On our car it makes a slight differance.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

The best traction control in the world is the human right foot

Lets face it, its not Formula 1 and we are not exactly going to break the sound barrier

Yes, the EDIS minimum is 10deg.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

On 14th Feb, 2010 Sprocket said:
The best traction control in the world is the human right foot

Lets face it, its not Formula 1 and we are not exactly going to break the sound barrier

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

The best traction control is not your right foot, not by a lok=ng way. In hillclimbing the first 60ft is also very important and traction control in our car could definitely be an advantage.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

Just throwing ideas around; what about electronic boost control & using TC to reduce the boost? or would that be too slow to react?

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

I've been doing a bit of digging on the MS forums.

A guy in Germany has been working on MS and traction control via an add on board for some time.

I'm not sure if this is going to be available as part of the MS code that has options for siamese port engines, but worth looking into.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

my car only uses a seperate ecu as we hadn't developed the Tornado ecu at that time - 2 years ago!, the Tornado ecu will handle everything the Typhoon has and has additional outputs for variable launch, t/c and drive by wire etc

You all need to dig the 2005 edition off Mmag out where goldie was first featured - running a 45dcoe and variable launch and t/c. Effective spark control is an essential element along with proven spark cut strategy. We didn't mess around thinking we knew how to do it, its not an easy function just to bodge together with a few microswitches and gaffa tape. The original system strategy developed back in 05 on goldie is still being used by a certain Norfolk sportscar manufacturer to this day (from 06), on cars with superchargers and cats etc.

rant over

JK

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

Well, I don't know where the microswitches and gaffa tape idea cam from, but the MS system uses hall sensors on toothed wheels, frequency to voltage converter ICs and connects to spare pins on the MS board.

The MS code version is based on 3.0.3r which is the latest extra code that includes the siamese code options.

It also uses fuzzy logic to determine spark retard.

Worth trying for the price of a few simple components.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

I think everyone has a valid point. what I like about doing it wit han Ms is it'll be chap to implement, but testing and setting will be the difficult bit.

With the SC stuff I'd hope to be able to plug and play, with maybe minor adjustments. I'll look into the MS stuff though as i already us the thing and it will be cheaper. It's nice to develope stuff too.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

Paul,

As you mention, this traction control code is based on the latest 3.0.3 code and as far as I know nothing has been removed so it should work exactly the same for the siamese-port injection.

In addition to the published code which works on the ignition, the same guy has been working on another version which also does fuel cut for better control. I think there is still some work to be done but this does look promising. And it should be compatible with the siamese code but it might not be the best with the single pulse mode since you'd be cutting 2 cylinders at a time.

And this code should be included at some point in the standard code. The main issue has been that the author wasn't yet ready for it since he wanted to do more testing and validation.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

Jean,

My concern with the fuel cut was exactly as you have pointed out, it would have to cut two cylinders completely at at time which would be a bit of an overkill.

I'm just trying to work out how to get a toothed wheel in the rear hub without converting to discs.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

http://www.jbperf.com/

cut teeth into the edge of the drum and mount the sensor in the back plate ?(unless your on an alloy drum)

retarding the ignition enough to reduce power to stop wheelspin wont be the same as an ignition cut , in regard to how much fuel goes out of the head unburnt .

the ms can be retarded further than 10 degrees ,simply by changing the position of the toothed wheel ,then adding the offset to the advance to get back to the original curve.

Edited by robert on 14th Feb, 2010.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."