Croft racing caterham R300 superlights.... got boned off Matt about my driving....
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Anyone able to clarify a question which is niggling away at me....nay it is burning me up as i cant compute the logic....


me my father in law and bro in law hired an R300 and pit team for a track day (to ourselves) at a cost of £1500... part of the day was a free 20min slot with a course instructor, i was not going to take a slot but as I have not been behind the wheel of a race car since 1997 i thought why not... keep me right on racing lines etc............ well after a while and being yelled at (i was frustrating Matt alot) the session ended. The query on my mind is this......in my disposition i drive at high speeds for long durations, when driving, the "System" is adopted IPSGA (Information, Speed, Gear, Accelerate) So to put this in context with system..... at croft on the home straight you are flat out in the caterham 6th gear approaching the right hander (Clervaux then into Hawthorn) you are positioned over to the left side of the track, you have assessed the bend and best gear is 4th.. as you pass the Pit onslip you ease off let the car slow when at the correct speed for the gear you blip change into 4th (done just prior to the turning phase) then you drive through the bend accelerating on he exit the car having equal balance on all four wheels....

this appears to be a NO NO !!!!

i was advised it is Balls out then brake hard and change gear at the same time then turn into the bend.... ? something to do with loading the front tyres up.

my theory is a simple one, when braking hard yes you load up the front tyres, the forces push the cars weight forward and down so yes the front tyres become loaded up.... however at the expense of the rear tyres (the driving axle) becomes light and the tyre contact / coeficient friction becoming less, the resulting force potentially being expelled by the rear trying to overtake the front, and off you go.......

By the end Matt was so frustrated with me and I had a good dressing down in the paddock, I was just nodding and agreeing, didnt have the heart to say i didnt agree with him at all..... i think with my position being off and a few other rust issues he obvously thought I was a total C**T not far wrong i guess.

there were other issues about winding it on in the bends etc which i agree with......but what am i missing with this logic ? Matt is a great bloke and was a respected lad about the paddock, i beleive what he is saying may be true but cant get my head around it.....

any advice from those in the know ? Jason ? Jon ? anyone ?

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MikeRace, Mini13

i always try and make sure im breaking in a strait line while downshifting (heal&toe) then back on the power a little as i start turning is that what you do i got abit confused half way through

Drives
-Ford S-max Mk2 Ecoboost
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Searching is all you need on TurboMinis

To drive in a competitive manner you must be pushing the envelope at all times.

Easing off and allowing the car to slow before changing down would mean the cars around you going past like you were stood still.
Thus I agree with your man, you brake hard whilst changing down, then turn in. Some people also trial brake whilst turning in, this needs care though as it is easy to get wrong.

Mirror signal Manoeuvre and the old steering wheel shuffle for me..

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VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

I kind of agree with tom.

Saying that a good friend of mine had an instructor at donnington when he was in his vx220 and he was trying to get him to trail brake on his first session.

Too much info to be dealing with imo on a first session.

Rick

yeah weird.... Tom dont get me wrong i was not going for miles down the straight dwindling down it is after all a four cylinder engine and it slows down real quick when you come off the gas, i just could not get my head around shifting gears when the car is at its most unstable point ? still had a fantastic day dessimated some chap in his GT3 RS

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MikeRace, Mini13

i adopt B.T.TB.G.L. ........

thats ,
brake ,
turn in ,
trail brake ,
go off,
laugh at nic .

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

If you lift off and then dont brake immediately,and as hard as you can,as Tom says, all you will see is the rest of the field streaming past.

Driving fast on the road and driving fast on the track are two different disciplines.

The only way to know this is to put a clock on the lap times and try the two styles, it will be obvious which is the faster technique.

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A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

I agree with Ben. A lap timer is a fantastic tool, yes, it's a tool.

"i just could not get my head around shifting gears when the car is at its most unstable point ? "

thats why you need to be good at heal and toeing /double de clutching, if you dont do it smoothly your quite right you will jolt the car and possibly make a wheel loose traction. but if done smoothly, shouldnt unsettle the car at all.

Dave the Cake

It depends on what kind of gearbox you have I just bang it down gears whilst breaking as hard as I can.
But I have a sequential box with a sliper clutch so I can be ruthless.
If you are racing you have to push the limits or you will be to slow.
Allan

http://www.rabdunn.co.uk/

Depends if you can heel and toe as well I suppose

Edited by Scruffy on 3rd Jun, 2010.

On 5th Sep, 2011 Vegard said:
I stand corrected. You should know

All heeling and toeing does is make the synchros live longer. It doesn't make you faster in my eyes. I use the brakes for slowing down, not the engine.

double de-clutching on down changes saves the synchros.

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of.

we are tought to do it for smoother gear changes if the car is jerking about then it is not stable, instructor usually takes us up a twisty B class road where a full range of gears are used all gears must be changed without the instructor feeling it....

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MikeRace, Mini13

All well and good for road driving. But on track who gives a toss if you are banging it up and down the box, it is all about being the fastest.

aye your right there......zero finess and on an "open pit" format track day its not about being the fastest either its about having fun and being safe.........

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MikeRace, Mini13

If you say so. When I go to an open pit lane trackday I adopt Austin rules. E.g. maximum attack and no one comes past.

Hahahahaha without fail Vegard..... i must admit i had a smutty snigger to myself when i first read it :)

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MikeRace, Mini13