Generic or Universal intercoolers
Turbo Mini Forums

Anyone considered something like this ???

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT

There are several the same on eBay (I picked one with longest sale time so the link won't disappear too soon) at about the same price (£54 -£100) and allways the key dimensions are the same 550x140x65MM core and 670 or 690mm overall length.

If it weren't for the fact that the spouts are straight out the end (rather than 90 degrees) I'd try one - I'm having trouble getting the Mondeo one to fit because of the spout direction - so I could just chop/re-weld on of these.

Overall core volume is better and it's bar/plate rather than tube/fin so might be slightly better in our kind of configurations.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

They don't look half bad actually...

looks very similar to mine - but that is super cheap!

same as what i have onthe truck,quite heavy tho, seems to work well,

I have one of those for the Miglia Turbo.

It fits nicely in the grill aperture on a round nose.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

if you do get one of those measure the pressure drop across it. i put the same size core on an RX7 (fd3) both ebay specials, one dropped 8psi, the other dropped near 14!! Went back to the standard interooler in the end.. obviously an a-series will never consume as much air as a twin turbo 13b, but a few of you are nudging close to the ~300hp this standard rx7 was.

turbo 16v k-series 11.9@118.9 :)

Denis O'Brien.

So dennis, would you say the conclusion would be you pay china you get china ?

carl

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

When can we expect a TI intercooler Carl, lol?

unfortunatly the thermal conductivity of ti is wank.

wank being a technical term lol.

lol. So I'd have to be a right wanker to think about one?

turbo 16v k-series 11.9@118.9 :)

Denis O'Brien.

lol

Well I bought one to see if it is a viable option, arrived this morning.

(I've also ordered some 2mm aluminium sheet so I can make new end tanks for the Mondeo one if it remains my preferred option).

From all the sellers on eBay there appeared to be two types, virtually identical but with either 6 mounting lugs or 4, and as I don't want the lugs I went for a seller whose picture had only 4 so I would have less to grind off. Guess what - it came with 6.......

There must be only a single factory making them in China.

The overall quality, esp. the welding, does look very good though.

But I'm not so impressed with the bar/plate design. It looks less restrictive to the flow of air over the outside (compared to the Mondeo item) but looks a lot more restrictive on the inside.

I've measured the tubes/bars/plates on both and, compensating for all the internal fins on both, even though the Mondeo one has a slightly smaller total CSA, it has a slightly larger CSA on the flow path.

However, even though it is worse in relative terms, the Chinese one still has a slightly larger flow CSA than the 57mm tubing I'm plumbing it all in with, but I think it will come down to the resistance of the internal fins - on the Mondeo one the fin structure inside the tubes is so uniform, I can see from end to end looking through the header stubs, I can't on the Chinese one.

Whilst I'm finishing fabricating the pipework, I'll and a couple of pressure tappings and thermocouple points to compare.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

we're using one of these on the front of our mini, so will be interested in the numbers. it seems to be working fine though, cools the air very well - after a run if you touch the 'in' pipe it is hot and the 'out' pipe is stone cold.

i was temopted by one of these as a custom cooler is going to be 200+

Right, a crude test involving a 20 year old dyson and some coloured water....
(test performed at 30 degrees C so there may be some sweat dropping on the camera lens).

Ford




Chinese





20mm H2O on the Ford and 45mm H2O on the Chinese despite its bigger core.....

The actual pressure drops are quite low but a 20 year old dyson won't be pulling anywhere near the CFM the engine will and the fact the Chinese one was more than twice as bad as the Ford one is bad..... pressure drop increases either (I can't remember which...) exponentially or square law with increasing flow rate.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

so what is this test showing exactly? the pressure near the dyson tube is lower on the chinese cooler because the air is unable to flow through fast enough from the open end of the cooler? therefore flow rate for a given pressure differential is lower than the ford?

- and what does this mean for cooling? is the air cooled better since it is in the cooler longer in the chinese?
- and is the extra resistance down to extra cooling fins/ surface area on the chinese one which might aid cooling?

Edited by Monkeh on 10th Jul, 2010.

It's just a crude pressure drop test, crude because it's at a fixed flow rate and I don't even know what the flowrate is - just whatever CFM a Dyson moves.

So it's the opposite way around to your description, it shows the pressure drop for a given flowrate (technically the flowrates won't be identical but as near as damn it).

So the Chinese one has over twice the pressure drop as the Ford at the flowrate I used. It will get worse as flowrate increases.

I only did a crude pressure drop test because of Denis's comments.

But pressure drop is only one part of any heat exchanger's performance, as you say performance measured as temperature drop may well be a lot better than the Ford because of all the extra fins etc. (that are most likely causing the increased pressure drop).

But you have to offset that against pumping power - if as Denis suggests it requires a much higher turbo outlet pressure to offset the pressure drop in the intercooler, you are potentially losing more than you gain from the better temperatures.

Anyway, my last bit of silicone hose arrived this morning and I've worked out a way I can try either in the car and then I can measure both pressured drop and temperatures at real engine flow conditions.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

excellent, i'll be looking out for that

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Wow, top thread Rod!

I've been considering going for a cooler similar to the chinese one you've got, Think i'll stick with the bimmer one i have as its a similar design to your ford cooler

id say oe coolers are the way to go, and have end tanks made if you wish, i run a fiat cooler and its been tremendous.

turbo 16v k-series 11.9@118.9 :)

Denis O'Brien.

you did Dennis, and its top info, cheers!