Weird clutch problems... [sorted]
Turbo Mini Forums

Hi!

Ok, this is going to be ab it longer - appologies in advance!

The engine is a n/a MG Metro-ish engine. So not extraordinarily strong I would guess it maybe produces 80lb/ft?

I tried two clutch units (flywheel, pressureplate) on this one (both Verto). First a SPI clutch (190mm plate) which didn't slip, but made a screeching noise with 1/2 pressed pedal (i.e. letting it slipp).

First question:
Does the cap head sleeve need to be lubricated?

The release bearing was the same with both clutches and the second clutch didn't make a sound.

The second clutch was a 998 one (180mm plate). This one did slip under full throttle. But not always, only irregularily (but there were more occasions of slipping than not slipping, though). And sometimes it slipped more, sometimes less. So all very inkonsistent...

I put this down to oil in the clutch; but I found only a very tiny amount of oil in the clutch housing.

However, the clutch cover was under pressure and *popped off* when I removed all the screws. This isn't normal, is it?

The SPI clutch has a total height of 98mm (bottom to top of sleave), the 998 clutch is 101mm. Another 998 clutch I used for reference was 98mm too.

So - basicaly I'm totoaly lost... The one clutch made a unhealthy noise, the other slipps...

Suggestions!? The clutch mechanicals & hydraulics are all sound and move nice without hesitation.

I'm open for ideas... The release bearing is a new one, btw. I have not compred it to an older one yet - maybe it's too wide and adds the pressure on the clutch, partially releasing it!?

Cheers,
Jan

Edited by Asphalt on 26th Jul, 2010.

[X] nail here for new monitor

The squealing noise can be caused by the more modern asbestos free clutch linings, don't worry too much about it.

The slipping could be due to the flywheel surface not being perfectly flat, so the clutch is not engaging properly. I have had this myself with a brand new clutch slipping, after 500 miles it was then fine.

Sounds like the Diaphram doesn't have enough Presure, which there could be a number of reasons for it.

i'm not overtr familiar with verto , but i remember them having three dowels to locate the cover to the main body, have you got the cover located on said dowels , because if not the cover will be sat on top of them and you could have tightened down the blots thinking the cover is all the way home but it will be 3-4mm off sitting flat home and loosing masses of l clamping force .

carl

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

I have not touched them, they are as they left the factory. :) So no new clutch plate and the dowels are all properly located.

@mowog:
Yes - but why? Was it due to the 'pre-loading' of the clutch, is it down to wear or was it realy that tiny wee little bit oil?

Probably a combination of all... A bit too moch power for a 998 diaphragm (if they are different), bit too much wear, bit pre-load and a wee of oily mist...

Usually it's the other way round; things stop to work after I fettled with htem, not the other way 'round, that's a bit worrying

Thanks for your input guys! :)

I'm going back to the SPI clutch fitted with a fixed turbo plate.

Cheers,
Jan

[X] nail here for new monitor

i would put the clutch slip down to the 998 clutch on a (hot -ish) 1275, the 998 spring on the verto is weaker

by clutch cover you mean wok ( the bit with the engine mount on)
that should not pop off, the release bearing should almost disengage completely from the clutch 'fingers' and sounds as if the clutch wasnt allowed to fully disengage

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett

I have never heard a fibre based friction plate screech. what may habe been making the noise is the thrust sleave (top hat thingy) grinding on the clutch spring, or, the thrust sleave grinding on the release bearing because of a siezed release bearing.

The SPI clutch should be able to cope with the torque, but the 998 one will be marginal.

There are two main types of clutch 'cover' Valeo and AP, both do the same thing but use differing leverage ratios. This may acount for the spring tention when dissassembling, however, you should still be able to get the bolts into their respective holes a few turns before the start tightening down on the 'cover'. There needs to be some tension in the spring when the clutch is assembled, as it is this that stops the clutch sliping.

Pictures of what you are describing could be very helpful

Edited by Sprocket on 21st Jul, 2010.

Colin, i think hes talking about the wok

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett

Yes, sorry... Clutch cover = wok (where the plunger & arm are attached too) in my terms. :) This thing: http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1627/kupplungsdeckel.jpg This was under tension when I removed it which is not quite normal...

Both clutches are the Valeo type.

So - do you lube the top hat sleeve to stop it screeching on the springs, or is it just a matter of too much play? I noticed that there are two types of top hat sleeve: one with a plastic insert, one without but smaler inner dia. http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5615/dscf00111.jpg - the hat with the plastic bit inside sits very tight, the other has about 1mm play to the side.

[X] nail here for new monitor

A right. If the wok is unter spring tension, one of two things are happening. The plunger is siezed in the housing or the slave cylinder has not fully retracted. Or the clutch has not been assembled correctly, thats three, lol. either way, there should be no spring tension on the wok with or without the slave cylinder fitted.

Are the two different top hats the same hight? I cannot remember.

The big plunger nut should be adjusted to give a 6-7mm clearance to the wok when the thrust bearing is up against the top hat (assembled engine) There are also a couple of different release bearings for the Verto. You are using a Verto release bearing?

There should be no need for lube as the top hat will spin with the flywheel and clutch with the release bearing allowing the rotation

Edited by Sprocket on 21st Jul, 2010.

[X] nail here for new monitor

an ill fitting primary gear will cause oil leakage.

Ok, but no squeal due to runing of square on a semi-released clutch or something like that?

Anyway; the SPI clutch fitts without adding tension to the wok - so I guess at least that'll be fine...

Btw: Does my scale work correct? Is the SPI flywheel realy almost 500g ligther than a non-injection Verto flywheel!?

Thanks for all the input! :)

Cheers,
Jan

[X] nail here for new monitor

yes, my injection flywheel is lighter by almost a half a kg to, its from the groove the reluctor ring sits in on the reverse side of the flywheel,

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett

Sorted. SPI clutch, Turbo clutch plate and SPI flywheel. And I used the top hat with the plastic bit.

Everything works fine now. No slipping with full throttle from 1st up to 4th - what a pleasure! And no squealing at all.

Thanks everyone!! :)

Cheers,
Jan

[X] nail here for new monitor