5 Speed gearbox - what does the market want?
Turbo Mini Forums

The basics are:- what would you want from a 5 speed mini gearbox and how much would you pay for it? There are many ways to solve the problem but we need to understand what people want - as it likely different from what we think they want! For the moment we'd like to look at synco set ups only in helical and straight cut options. I've listed some outlines below, you get the just - would like to hear what you guys have to think on the idea. The potential is there to offer built boxes and "kits" of bits for home builds, with exchange on the casings - both "stock" 5 speed and "strengthened" 5 speed. The strengthened 5 speed casing would be to introduce much larger bearings for the laygear, 1 in the transfer case end, one in the centre web and one in the billet speedo drive casing, combined with much larger dia layshaft and laygear bearings - all with the aim of reducing laygear deflection under high loads in 2nd/3rd gears.

Helical box, close ratio (?), std casing, over drive 5th	13 Votes - 0%
S/cut close ratio, std casing, s/cut over drive 5th	8 Votes - 0%
S/cut close ratio, std casing, helical 5th over drive	23 Votes - 0%
S/cut close ratio, fully monty strengthened casing, s/cut or hel 5th	32 Votes - 0%
Don\'t care, cheapest way of getting an o/drive 5th into an A+ case	18 Votes - 0%

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

Now thats a lot of options john, am sure the main factor is relaiability, no one wants to be messsing with a weak or temprimental gearbox.

Rick

Interesting,

there will be quite a few takes on this, everyones initial thought is change everything, then cost comes into the equation, and they dont really want to pay for an indistuctable box,

My pesonal preferance if cost were no issue would be somthing along the lines of an uprated case housing a SC four speed dog kit (like the quaife kit) with an over driven helical top.

it needs to be able to take the abuse all day long
it needs to be a step forward in gearboxes if there is going to be much point.
the engines can make the power the boxes cant take it imo thats where the problem lies but looking over pictures of broken gearboxes it seemes to be the case being the weak point now
idealy a full on redesigne gearcase, gearset would be needed i think that would be tiping over the £5k mark.. Thats too much money

a full on gear case based on the std unit but with ultimate strength in mind able to house an already available sc gearsets (or std) id buy one when i need it

i think nomatter what is decided the main selling point will be getting in on the strip and proving its ability (hint)

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett

as long as the overdrive can put up with a bit of hp helical 5 speed for me :)

oh and yes close ratio would be nice as my std box 2-3 too big of gap with my 3.44

Edited by benjamin on 8th Aug, 2010.

1152cc turboed mini clubman, most powerful 1.1L a-series?

http://boostmini.justboard.net/

i voted Helical box, close ratio (?), std casing, over drive 5th but strong***

S/C box is to loud for road use honestly
the chatter is cool but really you grow tired of it.

i looked into it & there are all ready 5 speed gear sets you can fit a honda cbr900 or cbr1000 gear set bang into a mini box & machine out for a bigger bearing, you should check it out.

very simple conversion.

great ratio's as well but it's straight cut, why bother on a everyday car.

the main thing is modern power combined with reliability honestly.

the gearbox now can take a bit of power & if you drive it normally it's fine but increased strength maybe bigger gear set? but 2nd gear always bang, diff case bang!

revving tits of on the highway is ok & i have a 3.1diff, still loud

reliability is what comes into it + budget.

idea maybe, you could come up with a kit form where even people could mod there own box?

you alos offer a complete box as well.


i'm over in australia, would be awesome idea as well unless you do just make a new box then i guess we will have to buy maybe Alloy Gearbox Casing?

all idea's

i would buy one as long as it is nothing like the mini spares 5speed is over priced & week as piss & not a true overdrive at all driven one in australia not good at all really ( best on the market though)

we are trying to do is modernise our little machines.

i mean at the moment to increase strength with my supercharger set up
im going to cryo gen my box, i want it
to last for everyday & still have some fun.

i bought a quaife as well.


just a point of view mate,

good luck! ill keep my eye out.

I have not heard of the cbr gearbox conversion has any one dont this?

Australia. i would link you but ausmini.com is down at the moment.

Edited by NickG on 8th Aug, 2010.

more thoughts - double helical drops!!
and i think a realy strong helical 5th would be usefull for those of us that will drive to the dragstrips

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett

There are so many options here. My self I would like a decent 5 speed on my road car, but have never been able to justify the price.

My questions are, if 5th is overdriven is 4th locked shafts? If so a close ratio would mean a taller 1st. With a tall diff like a 3.1 1st is already pretty long imo. I guess with an OD 5th you would think about using a higher diff, but then you end up where you were before on cruse.

I guess if you kept 1st and 4th as they are and then fiddled with the ratios of 3rd and 2nd then somebody might buy it.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

i voted straight cut with heli 5th ,but i would prefer the non close ratio first , somethnig in the 3.2 :1 would be a lot better .

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

I voted for "S/cut close ratio, fully monty strengthened casing, s/cut or hel 5th"

It would be an improvement to be able to use a lower ratio diff (higher number) and then compensate for that with the 5th gear.

As long as it could handle slicks, then it will help 60ft times.

I would also like a helical 5 speed box that could handle decent torque for a fast road car. That would have to include uprated heli drop gears.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

I don't need 5 gearsfor therascecar, so I'm thinking road car, which means helical for me. however itwill never be cheap enoughfor me to justify it.

What is importantthough is that you don't make a few then deny you made them or refuse to make spare parts. If you havea JK box for instance, you break one bit and you haveto chuck therest in the bin.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

Why do we need 5 forward gears?? If you spec your box correctly for your application, then it's not needed. In my case, I'm building a fast road car that will be driven to the track/strip and hopefully back.

I'm using a 2.95:1 CWP and a JKD Abingdon S/C C/R gear set. If the engine will turn it, it should do 50mph in first, but it will only be doing around 3,500 rev's at 70. All being well I will be getting a quiafe ATB to complete a good strong gear box, that should be fairly user friendly.

As others have said, the casing is the weak point. I'm going to have a go at cleaning up the casting marks and some general tidying up inside the casing, but I'm aware that if I add more power in the future it will probably break.

I would buy a stronger case if it was available, but I would want to see one used in anger for some time before I parted with my hard earned.

Edited by apbellamy on 8th Aug, 2010.

I voted the last one "Don't care, cheapest way of getting an o/drive 5th into an A+ case" but proabaly not for the reason JK put that option.......

What I would like to see is a single option (maybe with the choice of helical or straight) that just adds a 5th gear to a "standard" box, with the minimum of extra parts, replacement parts, or internal modifications. If the additional parts gave say additional support to the mainshaft, oviously good.

Then the choice of all the other options is open to the user.

But it's just a dream as the fundamental design of the laygear cluster running on a stationary shaft prevents it being extended through the box to where there is plenty of spare space without major modifications, and if you put all 5 gears in the current place it's all new parts.....

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

great comments - thanks

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

I voted 4 straight cut, with a helical 5th gear. Best of both both it seems to me. I also went for the standard casing, as I couldn't afford the extra work - And Im sure you wouldn't have suggested it if you didn't think it would be up to the job...

Matthew

I'm quite liking this idea, it could be a spin off in its own right,

most of us pay out for S/C drops, how much more would herringbone ones cost.

I voted helical box; would want something for on the road car. But strong enough for supercharged / turbo applications.

Dazed and Confused....

I was thinking of having a direct driven 5th, however on second thought I would rather use, say the 3.44:1 final drive to make life on the rest of the box a bit easier in the lower gears with an overdriven 5th to bring the ratio down to say a 3.2:1

I would prefer to use standard casings, to keep costs down when something else breaks.

Edited by minimole23 on 8th Aug, 2010.

imo a 4 or 5 speed with double helic gears and drop's less noise more serfice area ect and maybe a new flywheel to put a stronger clutch on....

Drives
-Ford S-max Mk2 Ecoboost
-Rover 100 VVC #2 - track project

Searching is all you need on TurboMinis

with an rts i dont think putting the power down in any longer a problem..

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett

None of the above, dog leg first! That way you can mess around with the standard setup. Ala Japanese style.

But!
Most mini drivers dont cane the arse off of their minis like some of you may do. And there are more of them out there than on here so for the markets sake you want a cheap reliabe way of getting a 5th gear into your box, and a balls out nuke proof one for the racer.

Edited by Mr Joshua on 9th Aug, 2010.

Own the day

Edited by NickG on 10th Aug, 2010.