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Home > Help Needed / General Tech Chat > Timing Figures for MD274SP Cam | |||||||
![]() 8604 Posts Member #: 573 Formerly Axel Podland |
19th Sep, 2010 at 05:24:19pm
Does anyone have the actual timing figures for the MD274SP?
Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
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![]() 9812 Posts Member #: 332 Resident Cylinder Head Modifier Mitsi Evo 7, 911, Cossie. & all the chavs ...... won no problem |
19th Sep, 2010 at 06:44:54pm
here you go paul.
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![]() 8604 Posts Member #: 573 Formerly Axel Podland |
19th Sep, 2010 at 07:04:25pm
On 19th Sep, 2010 BENROSS said:
here you go paul. power band 1500 to 6500 cam lift inlet 0.285" ex 0.281" vlave lift inlet 0.348" ex 0.343" duration inlet 248 ex 274 deg timing figures inlet 16/52 ex 71/29 timed in at 108 valve clearence 0.016" Thanks Steve, but that is the data from the Kent website. As well as being incorrect, it does not distinguish between the inner and outer cylinders. You can't have an exhaust duration of 274 degrees and timing of 71/29 ! Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
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![]() 1497 Posts Member #: 100 Parisien Turbo Expert Paris\' suburb |
19th Sep, 2010 at 07:14:44pm
So then you just have to substract these numbers to know the scattering, ie 4° inlets 6 exhaust degrees.§.. 108 outers 112 inners |
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![]() 8604 Posts Member #: 573 Formerly Axel Podland |
19th Sep, 2010 at 07:41:36pm
On 19th Sep, 2010 fab said:
So then you just have to substract these numbers to know the scattering, ie 4° inlets 6 exhaust degrees.§.. 108 outers 112 inners I can see that on the figure quoted you get 108 and 111 degrees LCAs, but not how you have conclude on 4/6 degrees scatter. Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
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![]() 6748 Posts Member #: 828 Post Whore uranus |
19th Sep, 2010 at 07:50:21pm
paul,why have you decided the inners have a different lsa? Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM |
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![]() 8604 Posts Member #: 573 Formerly Axel Podland |
19th Sep, 2010 at 08:37:20pm
On 19th Sep, 2010 robert said:
paul,why have you decided the inners have a different lsa? The only figures that I have for SP cams is in an early edition of the yellow bible and they all have different LCAs and LSAs for the inner and outer cylinders. Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
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![]() 11046 Posts Member #: 965 Post Whore Preston On The Brook |
19th Sep, 2010 at 10:22:27pm
If I get a chance, I'll set up a test block and measure mine.
On 26th Oct, 2004 TurboDave16v said:
Is it A-Series only? I think it should be... So when some joey comes on here about how his 16v turbo vauxhall is great compared to ours, he can be given the 'bird'... On 26th Oct, 2004 Tom Fenton said:
Yep I agree with TD........ |
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![]() 1497 Posts Member #: 100 Parisien Turbo Expert Paris\' suburb |
20th Sep, 2010 at 07:23:05am
the actual timing is advertissed timing less duration :
On 19th Sep, 2010 Paul S said:
On 19th Sep, 2010 fab said:
So then you just have to substract these numbers to know the scattering, ie 4° inlets 6 exhaust degrees.§.. 108 outers 112 inners I can see that on the figure quoted you get 108 and 111 degrees LCAs, but not how you have conclude on 4/6 degrees scatter. |
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![]() 8604 Posts Member #: 573 Formerly Axel Podland |
20th Sep, 2010 at 09:52:05am
That's interesting Fab.
Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
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![]() 8604 Posts Member #: 573 Formerly Axel Podland |
20th Sep, 2010 at 02:00:28pm
On 19th Sep, 2010 Sprocket said:
If I get a chance, I'll set up a test block and measure mine. Whats the best way to measure cams and plot the data? That may be the only definitive way to get the actual data. I would do it with the usual cam setup stuff, follower pushrod, degree wheel, pointer and DTI. Just measure lift on the inlet and exhaust lobes of both 1 & 2 every 10 degrees or so. Try and find the centre of full lift on no. 1 inlet to zero in the data. Plot with Excel. Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
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![]() 1497 Posts Member #: 100 Parisien Turbo Expert Paris\' suburb |
20th Sep, 2010 at 03:57:44pm
On 20th Sep, 2010 Paul S said:
That's interesting Fab. But they quote the inlet timing as 16/52, not 16/56. Your figure are most likely correct. I hope they are as that spec would be fine for my application. |
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![]() 8604 Posts Member #: 573 Formerly Axel Podland |
21st Sep, 2010 at 02:36:58pm
Testing out Fab's theory seems to give realistic figures.
Edited by Paul S on 22nd Sep, 2010. Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
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![]() 11046 Posts Member #: 965 Post Whore Preston On The Brook |
21st Sep, 2010 at 05:50:05pm
would kent not have this data? would it be worth a phone call? comanies like kent cams are normally very helpful On 26th Oct, 2004 TurboDave16v said:
Is it A-Series only? I think it should be... So when some joey comes on here about how his 16v turbo vauxhall is great compared to ours, he can be given the 'bird'... On 26th Oct, 2004 Tom Fenton said:
Yep I agree with TD........ |
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![]() 8604 Posts Member #: 573 Formerly Axel Podland |
21st Sep, 2010 at 06:03:23pm
On 21st Sep, 2010 Sprocket said:
would kent not have this data? would it be worth a phone call? comanies like kent cams are normally very helpful I'll give them a try. It depends who you get on the end of the phone and if they even know the difference between a normal cam and a "scatter pattern" cam. They tend to just have numpties that will quote from the brochure, which we know is inaccurate. Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
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![]() 1497 Posts Member #: 100 Parisien Turbo Expert Paris\' suburb |
22nd Sep, 2010 at 06:04:29am
I would mail them, they will transfer it to the competent guy which will come back, hope so. |
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![]() 8604 Posts Member #: 573 Formerly Axel Podland |
22nd Sep, 2010 at 11:45:22am
I rang Kent. The guy that answered knew what he was talking about but he was either unwilling or unable to divulge the data for the inner cylinders except that they are ground on a 106 degree LCA.
Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
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![]() 10022 Posts Member #: 1456 Mongo Barnsley, South Flatcapshire |
22nd Sep, 2010 at 11:47:50am
Interesting :) If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of. |
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![]() 9502 Posts Member #: 1023 Post Whore Doncaster, South Yorkshire |
22nd Sep, 2010 at 05:20:35pm
112/110 LCA is that good or not :/ Yes i moved to the darkside |
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![]() 12307 Posts Member #: 565 Carlos Fandango Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex |
22nd Sep, 2010 at 05:31:50pm
depends what your TIP is. On 28th Aug, 2011 Kean said:
At the risk of being sigged... Joe, do you have a photo of your tool? http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...9064&lastpost=1 https://joe1977.imgbb.com/ |
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![]() 8604 Posts Member #: 573 Formerly Axel Podland |
22nd Sep, 2010 at 05:46:35pm
On 22nd Sep, 2010 Brett said:
112/110 LCA is that good or not :/ It's yummy ![]() Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
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![]() 1497 Posts Member #: 100 Parisien Turbo Expert Paris\' suburb |
22nd Sep, 2010 at 07:31:52pm
found this:
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![]() 8604 Posts Member #: 573 Formerly Axel Podland |
22nd Sep, 2010 at 08:24:50pm
On 22nd Sep, 2010 fab said:
found this: MD274SPM Sports Torque 16° 52° 71° 29° 19° 49° 71° 29° 1500/6500 248° 280° 108° 111° 110° 248° 280° 105° 111° 108° 4 7.23 7.13 SCATTER Do you know the source of this? I googled "MD274SPM" and found the spreadsheet containing this data. It's different from what Kent told me this morning. Confusion reigns ![]() I'm tempted to get one ground on 112/110 LCA, but then that would be very close to the MD274 which is 112 LCA anyway. I know that the MD274 works very well ![]() Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
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![]() 5988 Posts Member #: 2024 Formally Retired Rural Suffolk |
22nd Sep, 2010 at 08:40:41pm
On 22nd Sep, 2010 Paul S said:
so is it worth the extra cost of the billet ground MD274SP for just a couple of degrees advance on the inner inlets? I expect you are going to be the one who finds out :) I watched some of those early Vizard videos Joe posted and he rates the "scatter" pattern but that was nearly 20 years ago in the videos. He also really didn't explain why. However with current knowledge and turbos, I can see why a "scatter" pattern (why can't they just say different inner and outer timings, I hate the word "scatter" ???) would be another way forward. With the siamese code we can vary the injection timings inner to outer, so why not optimise it with a cam that already has different inner/outer timings.... But I'm sure you are way ahead of me there. :) Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ??? |
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![]() 6748 Posts Member #: 828 Post Whore uranus |
22nd Sep, 2010 at 08:50:01pm
and could some of that advance be to do with mixture control ,which is addressed by the siamese code anyway .. Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM |
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