7 port aluminum head & turbo ?\'s
Turbo Mini Forums

Just thinking about things as many of you know that I am currently running the 7 port Pierce aluminum head with dual weber 40's. I always tend to over-think things, but usually for good reason. I was just wondering if anyone has had any experience running an aluminum head (even 5 port) with boost? I know obviously the BMW K head is aluminum and has been run with plenty of boost, but I'm just thinking more the traditional A series style head and any complications with head gaskets (especially since I'm 1380) and heat. One thing that I definitely noticed first off with the 7 port was the almost instant heat transfer to the head and the fact that the carbs will burn you after the car has been run at normal temps (190 or so). At this point, I am not dry-decked which could potentially help with some of these issues. Obviously, heat will be a major issue with boost, so just thinking about some of these factors as a boosted 7 port will take a LOT of fabrication and most likely conversion to EFI. Hate to take on all of that work and $$$ just to destroy head gaskets or heads for that matter or have a boost limit of 4 or 5 lbs! I know that there is plenty of power to be had with the 5 port/HIF setup on 1 bar or more. Any input is appreciated. At this point, the head is already an 11 stud and I have never had a head gasket issue with either the 5 port or 7 port.

Eric
my pics.... http://www.fototime.com/inv/7AAF37CF3EFA956

ithink you may be biting the pioneering bullet here eric .i can tell you that iv run 15 psi on a bike with an alloy head ,and over 20 psi on a v8 rover with alloy heads,no problems there but not really replicating an a series .

theoretically , the possibility of the alloy getting too hot and going soft and then burning through between the cylinders seems the most likely chance if there IS a problem .perhaps engineer in a better than normal cooling system and run at say 75 degrees to reduce that risk ?

robert

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Could the problem be there isn't as much metal in these heads rather than the type of metal used? I though alloy was better at dissipating heat?

As long as the material is good I think you should be fine Eric, and I'm certain you'll be in a much better position that me with the Iron one.

also if it does burn through (it wont though ) you can get the head welded.

alloy or iron shouldnt affects its ability to seal the head gasket.

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

If you have a good IC, radiator and conservative CR / timing, I can't see a reason why your alloy head is no better than the iron one.

The usual issue on Minis is the lack of cooling capacity. You won't have that issue given all the room you have in your engine bay.

Maybe you can go for polishing of the chamber or ceramic coating for peace of mind ?

Rusty by nature

Thanks for the inputs on this...I know that alloy heads take boost all of the time on other engines, but I didn't want to plan and begin to execute all of the work just to realize what a waste of time it could have been if I hadn't asked such a simple question in the begining.

My thoughts at this point are to make a good turbo engine out of my spare block and do a side mount turbo like winersurfuk's with the HIF, intercooler, and standard plenum to start. With this, I can work out the turbo bugs first and then go ahead with the 7 port setup.

I may also just try to do an EFI conversion first on the 7 port to get that out of the way on a running engine as I think it will be a must for boost on that head. I know that there are guys running dcoe's with turbos as blow through (mainly down in Puerto Rico on the drag track with Toyotas), but I am not looking for a WOT drag car....and I think that would be all that the webers would be capable of under boost.

Unfortunately for me, all of the good EFI and turbo parts are not in the U.S......and the exchange rate is terrible right now for us!

Eric
my pics.... http://www.fototime.com/inv/7AAF37CF3EFA956

megasquirt is in the us eric .

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

I think that you are less likley to get a problem with heat on an aluminium head than iron.

Although aluminium is softer and has a lower melting point than iron, anyone who has ever tried to weld aluminium well tell you that it takes a lot more heat to melt the aluminium.

This is because it has a much higher conductivity than iron and wicks the heat away much quicker.

I think it is a better material than iron. Just need to get testing to find out.

Might need a bigger rad than usual though.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

I spoke to a chap that runs a 1300 Hyabusa drag bike. The head was in for repair. The head had melted between the exhaust valve seats. He had however been running 35psi boost at the time, and I dont think the melting was just down to the head being aluminium either

I melted a piston with nitrous, and the head/ valves were untouched. I dont think you will have an issue with an aluminium head.

what are pistons made of?

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett

These are exactly my thoughts and why i went with the ally 7 port Paul

I guess my main concern was not so much that the head could melt, but more with the heat transfer characteristics and sealing under boost with the A series head bolt configuration. I do know that the car does run cooler per the temp gauge than with the cast iron head, but to the touch, it will burn the hell out of you on the surface where the cast iron would not. Even the trumpets on the carbs get scalding hot even when the running temp is only up to 190 or so....although now that I think of it, it is mainly after the engine is shut down that the heat transfers more after the coolant stops flowing.

On another topic with the 7 port and throttle bodies....any suggestions? I know that the Jenvey setup that matches the dcoe flange will bolt right on and can handle 3x the boost that I would ever run....I would figure that these could also be configured with a megasquirt setup too. The MED kit looks very tempting with all of the parts together and the DTA engine management, but it is a lot of $$$

Eric
my pics.... http://www.fototime.com/inv/7AAF37CF3EFA956

Jenveys with the dcoe flanges, added benefit of being available in different lengths so you might be able to squeeze them under a std roundnose. Also at around 200 each, not too badly priced, also very popular.
Jenvey also do all the fuel rail parts, tps bits, idle control, pressure regs, etc at reasonable prices.
Ecu wise megasquirt in the U.S isn't a problem, diyautotune do either kits or fully built units depending on your soldering confidence. In all, I would imagine you should be able to get it all in for circa 1500 pounds, don't know what that is these days in dollars.

Butttt, if your going turbo, ideally, single large throttle body with a pilenmellenium. Look at Joe c's 7 port thread for ideas :)

Edited by sturgeo on 27th Sep, 2010.

Joe's build thread is impressive...it is one of the reasons that I would like to eventually go 7 port. Any real benefits of plenum over I.T.B.'s? (or ITB"s over a plenum for that fact). I had a plenum and single TB on my GTI, but it was running a T4 and large amounts of boost, so it is hard to compare to the A series setup.

Eric
my pics.... http://www.fototime.com/inv/7AAF37CF3EFA956