running veg oil astra dti
Turbo Mini Forums

hi i no its not mini related but im sure someone on here nos a bit
i have a astra dti y plate thinking of running veg oil good or bad idea any advice please .

not sure what engine you have un the dti,
i had a quite older model a 95 1.7tdi with the isuzi engine, that'd run 70/30 veg/derv ( i put about a fiver of petrol in with every fuel tank) that ran no problem over the summer months when it was warmer but about 40/60 over winter as it struggled a little in the mornings but once it heated up was like a train.
it had had the pump and turbo played with though.

it would just loose a little top end rev with veg in there

Jack Jones

Some have run a little in-line pre-heater to thin the oil down. Just make sure you change the filter regular.

As it soon gets clogged up with bits of old chip!

Veggy oil from cash'n'carry and super markets is just as expensive as diesel nowadays anyway.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/used-waste-vegetable...=item2a0afd8fcb

The cheapest solution is domestic heating oil - it's virtually identical to pump diesel, just needs about 2% 20/50 multigrade added as a lubricant for the injection pump and injectors. Less than 40p a litre if you fill your heating oil tank at the right time of year.

It goes on all the time around here (no mains gas so everyone uses oil for heating) and it's obvious who's using it as it gives a slightly different exhaust smell especially on a cold engine.

Of course it's totally illegal, as is cooking oil (new or used) unless you register with Customs and Excise and pay duty on it.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Cooking oil is not illegal. Regulations regading duty on vegetable oil as a fuel has changed in the last few years, and as such, as long as the volume of oil used falls bellow the maximum volume before you have to pay duty, it is duty free. That volume is a rather significant amount and the average person will not reach it unless they are a commecrcial business for example. I cannot remember what the max volume before duty is, its been about 2 years since I looked into it.

http://www.smartveg.com/faqs/fuel-duty-vegetable-oil.php

That's the problem: old diesels are very futuristic in regards of environmental protection.

The crux is: it's illegal to run 'eco' fuels like veg oil. Unless it's been esthered to bio-diesel and sold at the next gas-station. But why go the detour of making oil, making it into diesel and sell it, if you can pour it directly into a fuel tank? Ah wait - mr & mrs government don't get an a$$ full of money from taxes if you pour food(!) in your fuel tank....

Anyway: diesels need pre-heating of the oil.

There are basicaly two systems: two-tank systems and single-tank systems. TT systems switch to oil once on operating tempreture (so water is above 80° and can heat oil to similar temps). ST systems use additional pre-heating to heat up the oil ('park heating') from the start. The problem is the higher viscosity of veg oil, which can destroy the injection system. Therefore heating is required to achieve a higher viscosity, similar to diesel.

A mate of me ran such a two-tank system in his TDI.

The older pre-chamber (traktor ) diesels with inline injection pumps (Bosch p.e.), like Mercedes OM601, 602 or 603 can run on oil with the std. pre-heater - unless it's below 10°, then you need to either install a two tank system, better pre-heating or run a oil/diesel mixture (50:50, 60:40) (In an ideal world you have that from the beginning on, even with an old Mercedes ). Idealy, even these get better injectors & different tune of the injection pump timing.

Re: prices: at least over here, Diesel is @ 1.25€/l at the moment, whereas you can get veg oil @ 0,95 to 0,99/l in the supermarket; if you buy large quantities in a oil mill - even cheaper. But this requires some space to store (500-1000l+).

That's how far my knowledge reaches, I guess this is a much better read: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html

Personaly, I'm going to run a mixture this winter, and try to reduce the percentage of diesel added (there are some places where you can legaly buy veg oil for use as fuel). But: my car has the obove mentioned OM602 with Bosch pump.

Another point worth mentioning is, that only stainless stell or aluminium heat-exchangers are suitable for veg oil; evereything else corodes (I've been told).

@Sprocket:
Our government was very clever; they declared: by law, anything you put into a fuel tank IS fuel and therefore needs to be taxed. You buy it as a food - put it in your car: it's fuel and has to be taxed. Clever, eh?

Edited by Asphalt on 17th Oct, 2010.

[X] nail here for new monitor

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Heating oil mixed with diesel is problably the way forward.
Or....I maybe wrong, chip oil is classed as industrial waste. Surely a licence is required to burn or get rid of the stuff? If you had a licence......grey area?

PS...Obviously run it through a filter before you put it in the tank..........

Edited by Jason G on 17th Oct, 2010.

Our machines use mineral oil, and one of the lads burns that in his Jeep, which if you ask me, defeats the original point of burning vegetable oil. That point being that vegetable oil is a renewable carbon fuel, as renewable as it can be under the current technologies, while mineral oil or fuel is a stored carbon fuel

same could be said for heating oil. What is the benefit excepting the initial cost. You would have to ask yourself it it is really worth it when the only benefit is a few pence, while you are still producing all that stored Co2. ( i am not an environmentalist before you start )

Edited by Sprocket on 17th Oct, 2010.

We should all be environmentalist. Not the dreamer kind but still.

Rusty by nature

^Gah, my car runs without trees

[X] nail here for new monitor

That's where you are wrong my European friend ALL European fuels available at the pump has at least 5% Biofuel in it

a mate told me if you mix veg with a bit of white sprit it should be fine to use anyone else heard this

yes.

In my opinion, if it wont run on SVO, dont waste time or money on it.