Whats lighter
Turbo Mini Forums

which of these are a better buy, carbon fibre of fiber glass

Carbon fibre is lighter,getting a flipfront myself soon,just cut the front off today prob have a fibreglass one thou as they come in white so wont bovver painting it as the car is white

Metro turbo weekend driver,Mini turbo in the making again!

dans (pot_dan) will sell u his flipfront in primer with brace bars cheap

Previous Engine: 1040cc Morespeed engine, 1275 turbo head T2 Turbo Mirage Manifolds Megajolt
Previous engine: STD metro turbo, megajolt
Drives: 399bananahp (flywheel) Honda Civic Vtec b18c4 T28 Turbo 1968 Mini

Megajolt maps to download: http://www.jamesfawcett.co.uk/cms/index.ph...&gid=3&Itemid=3

but you cant easily buy carbon fiber panels...

alex

AlexF

carbon fibre panels are easy to buy....

from what ive been lead to believe, carbon is less likely to degrade over time so will last longer. we're talking years mind!!

curley isnt true cf, its atleast the same weight as grp if not more

i only have a cf front because it was cheap cheap five dollar

If youare just talking about panels (i.e. flip-front) then the weight difference between glassfibre and carbon fibre is zero, as greypride says cf maybe heavier.

cf is only an advantage, weight wise, when you start making structural bits.

Wil

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

AlexF

think of the saftey aspect as well
for Strength

please dont over look this aspect!

cos if it went pear shaped is it strong enough??

GF THIN CF Or a mixture of the two?

you thinking about a flip front and safety?

Don't be daft! Og course its less safe... then again so is fitting a roll cage and not wearing a helmet!!!

But people don't care about that!

alex

AlexF

well im goin with the theory that shoud i crash im fcuked anyway, so ill just go with whats cheaper out of the 2 as it seems to be about 50/50 with the coments.

Thanks guys

Andy

Life is one big race!

like you comment miniturbo man.

but first you must finish!!!

i am nor sarky in anyway buddy,

but concerned for you.

your right alex people dont care about that.

suppose lifes one big risk anyway.
but its nice to minimise some of them.

hmmmm i might change race to risk.

the reason i dont care about safety is coz i new someone who avoided a lorry at 30 but hit a fence head on in a std mini. the front end crimpled n he broke his leg. so i want 2 make a good roll-cage that will protect me from all angles

but thats gunna weigh alot so i need 2 ditch some of the weight, appreciate all your views though, its made me look at it from a different angle

roll cages kill if you dont wear a helmet...

when why insurance on roll caged cars is harder to get and nearly always removes the peronal injury benifits from your package!

alex

AlexF

new one on me to alex....but. ..........................

if you are straped in with an FIA cage harness and seats then you have better protection yea!

have you any evidence of cage killing the occupant ? with out helmet

i would rather have a cage than none

i suppose the insurance companys deem a cage as the guy is going to drive more faster and dafter than the guy without one
(boy racer type.)

hence bigger premiums

i may be wrong though

Evidence...

yes...

Caterhams/Westfields... a few people who go for full cages rather than a simple roll over bar. The insurance is also silly on fully caged caterfields compaired to a rool over bar which is a very long way behind your head.

How much closer is your head to the cage even when your strapped into a decent seat, compaired to the body of the car?

Alex

AlexF

point taken alex.

but mines well padded for the purpose

i personally would have a cage than none
(well padded)

through this debate i am going to beef the padding up no end thanks

could be worth getting a saftey section going does and donts, alex:???

you want to use rool cage padding...

not pipe insulation!

The best stuff is the foam motorcycle jackets are made off... its soft untill somthing hits it hard and then the foam absorbes the impact without collapsing!! Magic stuff but pricy

alex

AlexF

Like for like carbon fibre is lighter than fibre glass, end of story.

To weight two mini front ends and conclude that one material is heavier than the other is wrong.

So so much depends on what materials are used and how they are laid up. Glass is usually used alongside polyester resins. These are cheap but do have there draw backs. The resin shrinks as it sets, which leads to panel distortions. The heat resistance isn't all that good. And depending on the grade the UV resistant can be poor (so your white may be looking creamy after a while). GRP (fibre glass) is made in whats known as wet lay up, you have your glass cloth and a tub of resin. The resin is daubed into the cloth with a brush or rollers. This can lead to an overabundance of resin being used that dosen't add to the strength but does to the WEIGHT.

Carbon is available in two flavours. Seperate cloth for use in wet lay up as above, although it is usually used alongside epoxy resins. Epoxy resins are in general a much better product than polyester systems. They shrink far far less (virtually non) and can have good heat and UV resistance. Secondly you get pre-preg, which is a carbon cloth that has just enough resin pre inpregnated into it (squeezed between rollers). This resin is very high quality and undiluented, it is very thick. You wouldn't really be able to work with it in wet lay up. However the advantage is that it has excellent cured heat resistance and can have good UV qualities also. The fact you add no liquid resin means that the component will be a light as possible as just enough resin is used during the pre-preg satge of cloth manufacture.

Also carbon fibre comes in quite a range of weaves, each type has varying strength properties.

I recenly had a nose cone made in pre preg and saves 2kg over the fibre glass item it replaced, about 40% On the flip side of this i know somebody who had some bodywork made by a guy who didn't know what he was doing with carbon. The result was a ?6000 body that weighed 21kg as opposed to the 22kg of the glass item (not a great loss for the investment !!). I took it along to my carbon guy who said he coulkd do it at around 13-15 kg.

So much is down to the guy who lays it up. Properly made carbon panels can be very expensive, but you get what you pay for. Some of what ive seen has simply had a skin of carbon over a fibreglass core, this may make it more rigid, but aint going to save a lot of waste.

Edited by Mirage on 12th Mar, 2005.

Mirage just about covered it all, comparing the two is not that simple. Most of the weight is resin not cloth. Even with pre-preg it is possible to end up with heavy pieces. Pros use either autoclaves or vacuum bags to cure the laminate. The idea is to "suck" all excess resin from the laminate and press the layers tightly to each other to prevent delamination, bubbles and stuff from the laminate. These weaken the end result. Boy racer carbon fibre stuff has nothing to do with pro stuff. If you want cheap CF you can buy fake adhesive sheets...

For really rigid stuff various cores are used but that is not really applicable to flip fronts.

Please remember that no matter what the laminate is made of they are still very vulnerable to impact damage. Drop a 2 lb hammer on the panel and you may have serious damage even if the surface looks perfect.

(My profession got me involved with Finnish Air Force and NDT inspections of carbon fibre structures of fighter plane panels hence the additional remarks)

My Curley Fibre glass front end is lighter than the CF one. PERIOD!

Ok, if the material is lighter, but the fisished article is not so.