MS Build Guide - Abbreviated
Turbo Mini Forums

This is a cut down version of the build guide to just give a taster of what is involved.

Work is ongoing to produce the full version.

Constructive comments would be welcome.

Attachments:

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Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

As an EFI novice, I've read it and it all makes good clear sense to me.

Thank you, Andy.

Hopefully it will help dispel some of the myths about the complexity and difficulties of port injection and 5 Port heads.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

One comment about the link for the wiring. You should use the msextra manual instead:http://www.msextra.com/doc/general/ms2external.html

The standard MS manual is not MS2/Extra friendly (understatement) and completely ignores its existence. This may lead to issues so anyone interested in the siamese code (or MS2/Extra in general) should only refer to the extra manuals and totally ignore the standard ones.

Jean

EDIT: Oh, and good job!

Edited by jbelanger on 9th Feb, 2011.

http://www.jbperf.com/

Thanks Jean, link updated.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Edited by Paul S on 9th Feb, 2011.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

I do feel the need to read up on EFI, I just wish they taught reading in my school...

Seriously, the only additional tuning to normal EFi is the injection timing table.

Just compare the two widebands and alter the timing to equalise them.

My car has only had the timing optimised on the rollers. The rest was done on the road.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

For the "full" version (or however Paul and I decide to take it forwards) I'm writing up how to turn this



....very small number of parts, along with two small boards from Jean (not yet in the photo as they are only just being posted from Canada).... into a fully sequential 4 channel EMS that can run the siamese code for a basic 2 channel siamese setup or 4 channel (staged siamese) injection or plain 4 channel sequential for those using 7/8 port heads.

So long as you can solder, it is a very cost effective way forward.

I'll build it with photos over 10-14 days - not because it takes that long, probably only 3-4 hours - but because I want to photo and document as I do it and I need to wait for the two additional boards from Jean.


Once finished and tested I'll put it up for sale in either 2 or 4 channel form and low or high z injector form - my next version will be a little more advanced than this but this version will be at least the equivilant of what myself, Paul and Graham are working with at the moment.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Forgot to say excellent guide chaps! Well
Worth the read! I think fuel injection will be on the cards in the near future.

1/4 Mile 14.3secs 96Mph Terminal 10psi of boost.


Fibreglass Parts? - http://www.tdkracing.co.uk/
Split Rims? - http://www.force-racing.co.uk/

On 10th Feb, 2011 Rod S said:
For the "full" version (or however Paul and I decide to take it forwards) I'm writing up how to turn this



....very small number of parts, along with two small boards from Jean (not yet in the photo as they are only just being posted from Canada).... into a fully sequential 4 channel EMS that can run the siamese code for a basic 2 channel siamese setup or 4 channel (staged siamese) injection or plain 4 channel sequential for those using 7/8 port heads.

So long as you can solder, it is a very cost effective way forward.

I'll build it with photos over 10-14 days - not because it takes that long, probably only 3-4 hours - but because I want to photo and document as I do it and I need to wait for the two additional boards from Jean.


Once finished and tested I'll put it up for sale in either 2 or 4 channel form and low or high z injector form - my next version will be a little more advanced than this but this version will be at least the equivilant of what myself, Paul and Graham are working with at the moment.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

got to say this subject, although of interest, has always been over my head, but having read through the manual, it appears relatively straight forward now - all more than likely down to Paul, Rod and Jean's constant hard work on the subject to make it that bit more understandable for the rest of us.

thanks and hats off to you boys.

Rob

From the photo above, after about 3 hours it became this...


Apart from the two small boards en-route from Jean, the only bits not in the photo are the three ICs where you just see empty sockets (obviously the big socket is for the CPU) and a surge arrestor that is too tall to lay the board on my scanner had I soldered it in and the three LEDs to the left which I can't find the right sized ones in my box of bits at the moment........

As you can see, less than 1/2 of the board is used, but once I put Jean's boards in the case above this, it will be a very powerful EMS for both 5 port and 7/8 port.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

so economically speaking rod , one would buy the bare board from america ,then get the components your showing in england ,and the little boards from jean ?

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Robert, personally I would say yes, particularly in this new configuration which uses so few of the standard parts (I'll explain why it uses so few later).

You can't actually buy just the board, it's what they call a partial kit which is board, CPU daughterboard and MAP sensor. Then you also have to buy the genuine MegaSquirt case because the PCB is 4" wide (so wont slide into a modern 100mm case) and the only country left in the developed world that still makes 4" cases is the USA.

Then all of the rest of the parts you see above (except 2) are from Farnell UK.

But, it is a balance between cost savings and hassle. If you buy the full kit, even though over half the parts won't be used (all the expensive ones!) they come in individual packets with exactly the right number, labelled with board location positions, notes about polarity etc. ie, all very easy.

Doing it my way, as you can see from the first photo, involves printing off lists from my own spreadsheet, getting the right number of each component out of a Farnell pack of 10 or 50 laying them out in the right order and numbering them, all fairly time consuming.

Plus you have to order them in the first place. That also means you are faced with minimum order quantities in a lot of cases and on top of that, I had to work out all the correct Farnell codes - not as easy as you would expect, lots of the resistors are 1/8W which are shorter than a standard 1/4W item, there's a couple of high tolerance ones and a couple of non-standard values, etc, etc...

However, I've done the hard bit and have the spreadsheet and if enough people want to do this I've got all the ones where there are large minimum order quantities.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

i see . thats very generous in time and effort of you rod . if i can get to a position , with my multiplicity of projects,
where i need a 7 port or 5 port ecu . it sounds as if with a bit of care, this is the most economical route to take .without any technical drawbacks ,function ,and facility wise .

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

All boards now received (postage from Canada is really quick).... I just need a few parts from Farnell (UK) to be complete.

See below.



Apart from the main PCB at the top the next one down is for low Z, the tiny one in the middle replaces all the VR and cam inputs (all the middle bit of the mainboard) and the bottom one is for high Z.

If my outstanding parts arrive from Farnell tommorow, I'll have photos of it complete in a few days.

Big thanks to Jean for being patient with me on his forum and by email over using the very little board for both VR and hall/opto. Once proven in this configuration, it will save a lot of build time.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Farnell Belgium - 1
Royal Mail UK - 0

Not for the first time, Farnell have sent me parts from their warehouse in Liege ordered at 4pm Monday and arrived at 9am Tuesday by UPS.

Parts from BitBox in the UK sent at 4pm Monday by RoyalMail First Class (sent at 4pm according to their email) well, not today, maybe sometime this year.

How long do I have to wait before this sad thing called Royal Mail gets privatised and actually has to deliver...



Anyway, lack of parts by Royal Mail means this is as far as I could get,



It's clear how much more the low z option (middle, right) needs compared to the high z option (left).

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

rod , i didnt see this had progressed , a few more infantile questions :),

did ups charge thier brokerage fee for customs ?

do the 3 chips on the main board have to be soldered to the board , or can they be socketed ?

do you have a summing up of costs of this way of doing it all ?

would making ones own box create much of a reduction in costs ?

thanks
robert

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Robert,

Both versions, covering the 4 most obvious options are actually finished (apart from the final soldering of the four wires that make the four options as I wanted to photograph it all 4 ways before posting).

Unfortunately, as you can see above, I'm having real problems with my camera with reflection from the flash of the aluminium case interior so I haven't got any decent photos yet.

Also I want to test them before posting and (a) it has been too freezing cold to be doing anything in the garage and (b) the connections of the wiring loom to the main plug have to very slightly different when using Jean's VR board compared to all the discrete components on the standard board, so I need to make up an adapter (rather than alter my current loom. (obviously this wouldn't affect anyone starting from scratch, only me because I now have two different versions).

For your questions.....

DIYAutotune and Glens garage usually send USPS (United States Parcel Service) not UPS, the courier company.
USPS hand it to RoyalMail (ParcelForce) who add the customs duty (~2%), VAT (20%) and their own handling fee (totally outrageous) before they will deliver.
If you could get it delivered by UPS (like DigiKey do) you just pay VAT at your door when things arrive, no handling fees, but UPS rely on the seller dealing with customs duty.

The daughterboard has to be socketed because of its round pin configuration - plus you need the ability to remove it to get at additional connections for expansion under it or if it failed (operator error 99% of the time if you read the forums) - but the others can be socketed. Personally I use sockets for development (being able to measure voltages etc at the socket with the chip out is really useful) but if it's a known design I solder them straight in. Look at the blurry photo below and you'll see I've socketed the chips on the mainboard but soldered the ones on Jean's P&H board straight in.

No detailed summing up of costs because of the options, ie, low z vs high z, use of Jean's boards vs all the MS3 V3.0 mainboard parts, buying a partial kit and seperate components vs a full kit, etc, etc, etc..... I'll try to do an estimate of each option once I finish the detailed bit of the write-up.

Box..... the problem is that the MS2 V3.0 mainboard and Jean's add-on boards for it are 4". All modern stuff is 100mm, even Jean's newer boards (IO-x, data logging) are 100mm - but you can't fit a 4" board into a 100mm case, well not on the slide rails anyway.
So you would need a larger case and mount things with spacers, bolts, stand-offs etc. Then you have all the problems of cut-outs in the endplates etc..... So, TBH, best stick with the MS2 box.

Blurry photos from a couple of weeks ago,

High z,




Low z,




Little wires from driver boards not soldered to main PCB because of the four various options.


What the photos don't really show because they are so bad, is that 75% of the normal component count is omitted from the main PCB.

And the IC centre right of the mainboard isn't required for 4 channel operation so there is even less if you want staged siamese injection (or 4 channel sequential for a 7/8 port).

Edited by Rod S on 13th Mar, 2011.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

thanks rod ,this looks very encouraging for those on a budget.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM